TeleFinder Chat Log

Text of TeleFinder Chat from Tuesday, September 9, 1997 11 AM PDT.

In attendance:

From Spider Island: Rusty Tucker

Special Guest from Keyspan: Jose Arellano

Sysops: John Eriksen, Jonathon Paisley, mikael fredriksson, Bill Gram-Reefer, Michael Davidson, Daniel Parker, Ken Sutherland, Rick Palmer, Robert Hall, Juan Jose Tarud, John Agapitos, Jose Jordan, Bob Nunn

John Eriksen: Glad to see that SI.COM is still up & running keep it up Rusty

Rusty Tucker: Hello Mikael!

mikael fredriksson: Hi!

Rusty Tucker: "chat logger" is keeping a log of this room.

mikael fredriksson: Is it a TeleFinder client or separate program?

Rusty Tucker: It's TF Client connected to a node w/ Max Idle time set to -1. The chat
logger account also has unlimited time, and I turned off his "available for chat" so that
there are not any Instant Message's in the log

mikael fredriksson: ok:)

Michael Davidson: Hey Rusty, for the last week at least, the Session Time has Host
Time set for about 10 minutes ahead of the real time.

Rusty Tucker: The clock has drifted a bit on the server.

Bill Gram-Reefer: drifting?

Rusty Tucker: Its running about 5 mins ahead of the time on my mac

Michael Davidson: I've been using the freeware Vremya to keep time.

Rusty Tucker: yeah, the Mac clock is not too precise, it drifts off the actual time after a
while

Michael Davidson: it uses TCP to set your clock.

Rusty Tucker: I used to have the Network Time control panel, but it kept crashing the
computer

Michael Davidson: uses "Network Time Protocol"

Michael Davidson: I schedule it using Mail Server, itÕs an app

Rusty Tucker: Please upload a copy of it to the BBS. Is it very stable?

Michael Davidson: I haven't ever had a problem yet. Keeps ya within a second or so.

Jonathan Paisley: hi folks

Rusty Tucker: Hi Jonathon, Welcome Jose!

Michael Davidson: Being an app, it seems less problematic then an init.

Jose Arellano: Good morning everyone!

Michael Davidson: Morning? :)

Jose Arellano: Thank you Rusty.

Jose Arellano: Morning/Afternoon/Evening ;)

Bill Gram-Reefer: hey jose

mikael fredriksson: I'm downloading a copy of Vremya 163 now from the net will
upload it to SI

mikael fredriksson: :)

Jose Arellano: Hi Bill

Michael Davidson: I think that's the latest mikael

Rusty Tucker: We're keeping a log, and Bob Nunn has offered to maintain an archive
of the chat logs

Ken Sutherland: good evening all

Rusty Tucker: Why dont we wait a few minutes before jumping into the topics.

Daniel Parker: Morning (Too early once again, I might add)

Michael Davidson: Thanks Bob (aka logger)

Rusty Tucker: "Chat Logger" is an unmanned TF User.

Michael Davidson: o

mikael fredriksson: Vremya 1.63 is now in the General Utilities folder here on SI

Rick Palmer: How's the weather over there in Larryville Michael?

Rusty Tucker: That way I won't forget to start a log, and the Instant Message's don't get
mixed up in the chat log.

Michael Davidson: Nice, for August

Michael Davidson: Good idea Rusty.

Rick Palmer: Nice here in Eudora too. :)

Michael Davidson: :)

Rick Palmer: I guess we have this area well represented

Rusty Tucker: U should wait for the later chat Dan. ( about 7 hrs from now )

Rusty Tucker: Ready to start?

Daniel Parker: But I'm at work then!

Rusty Tucker: I'd like to welcome Jose Arellano, Product Specialist from KeySpan Inc.
to our Chat!

Rusty Tucker: Jose has taken the time today to bring us up to speed on the latest
offerings from KeySpan, including their new PPP Server.

Jonathan Paisley: Certainly a good turn out today in any case!

Michael Davidson2: Yeah Jose!

Rusty Tucker: After Jose has had a chance to do that we'll fill in with a little Q&A as well
as info about TF Server 5.6b1.

Rusty Tucker: Ready to go Jose?

Jose Arellano: Yes.

Rusty Tucker: Why don't you give us the short and sweet about the PPP Server?

Jose Arellano: Basically, we have just released a new product into the Mac market:
The Keyspan PPP Server.

Jose Arellano: It's a hardware and software bundle consisting of our 4 port PCI serial
card and PPP Server software.

Rusty Tucker: What are the requirements to install it?

Jose Arellano: It offers a lowcost solution for connecting Mac, Windows and Unix users
to your TCP/IP based networks.

mikael fredriksson: Will it handle the new ARA 3.0 PPP connections AppleTalk and/or
TCP/IP ?

Rusty Tucker: Using PPP a user can dial into my network, and access local TCP based
servers , like TF , Web and Email.

Jose Arellano: Any PCI based Mac running System 7.5 or greater with 2MB of RAM

Rusty Tucker: So, you really don't even need a live connection to an ISP, unless you
want to provide general internet access?

Jose Arellano: Our PPP Server only handles TCP/IP via PPP however we are looking
into adding AppleTalk to the server.

Rusty Tucker: I'm sure there are a lot of Questions , so why don't we try to use a
moderated format today.

Jonathan Paisley: Is the software just Vicom Internet Gateway/Softrouter or has it been
customized?

Jose Arellano: Jonathan: Yes, the PPP Server software is really a modified version of
Vicom's SoftRouter application.

Rusty Tucker: If you want to ask a Q , please type ?

Jose Arellano: Rusty: Correct

Rusty Tucker: I'll respond with GA (go ahead) "username"

Jonathan Paisley: ?

Rusty Tucker: that way we won't trip all over each other.

Rusty Tucker: GA Jonathon

Jonathan Paisley: Could you tell us what some of the improvements/differences are
with the PPP Server as compared with SoftRouter?

Jose Arellano: Basically we've simplified the configuration of the PPP Server so that
you can set up the server within minutes.

Jose Arellano: We've also added support for the Radius Authentication Protocol.

Rick Palmer: ?

Bill Gram-Reefer: is there an upgrade path to Vicom so I could add Internet access as
well as access to the local net the dialer is calling into?

Rusty Tucker: That means you'll be able to register many more users than are
supported by File Sharing ( 32 )

Rusty Tucker: Fyi- Radius is a "User Manager" type protocol for the Internet.

Rusty Tucker: GA Rick

Rick Palmer: Does it have radius built in or do ya need a radius server

Jonathan Paisley: eg MacRadius

Rick Palmer: MacRadius is fairly pricey

Jose Arellano: It does not have a builtin Radius server, however it can interface to any
Radius server such as MacRadius

Jose Arellano: You're not limited to using MacRadius. You can use any Radius server.

Rusty Tucker: Jose, Bill asked about Internet access, doesn't the PPP Server support
that if you already have a routed internet connection?

Jose Arellano: The PPP Server allows you to give access to remote users to the
Internet provided you have an internet connection...

Ken Sutherland: ?

Rusty Tucker: Can you set one of the PPP lines to dial your ISP, instead of waiting for a
user call?

Jose Arellano: However it does not allow multiple LAN users to share the same
Internet connection (such as Vicom's Internet Gateway application)

Rusty Tucker: OK, so it doesn't do the "IP Proxying". That's a bit of a problem anyway.

Rusty Tucker: ( proxying is the reason that CUSeeMe and some other apps don't work
w/ Vicom )

Michael Davidson2: ?

Jonathan Paisley: although CUSeeMe should be updated to work with it, I say :)

Rusty Tucker: GA Ken

Ken Sutherland: is your system limited to 8 ports like VIG (Vicom Internet Gateway)

Jonathan Paisley: (like VIG) ;)

Jose Arellano: No, you can have as many ports as you want.

Rick Palmer: ?

Rusty Tucker: GA Mike

Michael Davidson2: Before I get too excited, how much is your basic package (4 port
with PPP Server software)? Or did I miss that answer.

Rusty Tucker: :)

Jose Arellano: $529

Michael Davidson2: GA

Rusty Tucker: That includes the PPP software and the SX card?

Jose Arellano: Yes, the package includes the PPP Server software and our 4 port SX
card

Rusty Tucker: What if I already have a Keyspan SS6 or CSI Hurdler?

Rusty Tucker: Will it work with those ( 4 + extra ports )?

Jose Arellano: Yes, the PPP Server can see Keyspan serial ports.

Jonathan Paisley: ?

Rick Palmer: Does each 4 port config take one PCI slot? Which would limit the # of
ports.......

Jose Arellano: Rick: The card that comes with the PPP Server takes up one PCI slot...

Robert Hall: Came in late, do you ever make transcripts of these meetings?

Rusty Tucker: I'd like to do a quick poll here, if you have a 28.8 internet connection
respond with 288, if you have dedicated 56K or better type 56+, if you have no internet
type 0

Jonathan Paisley: 288

Robert Hall: I56+

Rusty Tucker: 56+

Bill Gram-Reefer: 336

Michael Davidson2: 288

mikael fredriksson: 56+

Keith Johnson: 288

Daniel Parker: 56+

Rick Palmer: 56+

Rusty Tucker: what about the Hurdler ports?

Jose Arellano: Jonathan: Currently, our PPP Server only sees the Keyspan ports

Rusty Tucker: OK, now lets break it down a bit

Michael Davidson2: ?

Rusty Tucker: if you have a 288, is it personal or dedicated.

Jonathan Paisley: jose: does that mean it doesn't use the comms toolbox?

Jonathan Paisley: personal 288

Rusty Tucker: if you have a 56+, do you support PPP dial-in now?

Jim S.: 0

Michael Davidson2: personal

Bill Gram-Reefer: 24x7, no ppp

Keith Johnson: personal

Daniel Parker: 56+, No

Rusty Tucker: 56+, no

Robert Hall: 128k no ppp

Jim S.: correction...personal

Jose Arellano: Jonathan: It uses the CTB but the version that we market only works
with Keyspan cards...

Rick Palmer: 56+ yes

mikael fredriksson: 128 k , Used to support PPP until last week (moved computer to
work)

Jonathan Paisley: jose: cunning ;)

Michael Davidson2: ??

Rusty Tucker: GA Mike

Michael Davidson2: Do you intend to support CSI Hurdlers or Hustlers? I

Jose Arellano: Vicom plans to sell the PPP Server by itself...

Jose Arellano: The version that they sell will work with any serial card.

Jonathan Paisley: with Radius support you mean?

Jose Arellano: Jonathan: I'm not sure I understand your question.

Jonathan Paisley: The PPP Server is your product (the one with Radius support), you
just said that Vicom will now sell it by itself; is that a version with radius authorized
support?

Jose Arellano: Jonathan: Yes, their version will be identical...

Rusty Tucker: Jose, lets take Bill's setup as an example.

Rusty Tucker: How would he be able to use Keyspan PPP to create PPP dial-in
accounts.

Jose Arellano: with the exception of support for non-Keyspan serial cards.

Bill Gram-Reefer: 2 dial in lines, plus dedicated IP connection

Rusty Tucker: He's got a dedicated PPP connection, 2 lines going to his BBS now and
would like to make those BBS lines, PPP lines.

Jose Arellano: Basically, Bill would setup the PPP Server and set it up on the his
machine with the dedicated Internet connection...

Jose Arellano: Once he has the PPP Server up and running, he can then give access
to the Net or to his BBS via TCP/IP.

Jonathan Paisley: ?

Bill Gram-Reefer: so I'm an ISP now?

Rusty Tucker: Right, his callers will connect via FreePPP or whatever

Jose Arellano: Yes.

Ken Sutherland: ?

Rusty Tucker: Does he need class C addresses?

Robert Hall: But do without the two dial up BBS node correct?

Robert Hall: What is the list or suggested list price of the standalone package from
Vicom?

Jose Arellano: Robert: PPP Users can connect to a TF system with Netscape or
TF/User if the TF Board has some nodes setup.

Rusty Tucker: ( to avoid overloading Jose, we're using protocol today, please type ? if
you have a question )

Jonathan Paisley: ?

Rusty Tucker: Jose, Bill will need a set of class C addresses to configure the PPP
server, is that right?

Ken Sutherland: statement, remember that an ISP feed rate is usually much more
expensive

Bill Gram-Reefer: ?

Jose Arellano: sorry about that, my machine froze for a few seconds...

Jose Arellano: Rusty: Bill can assign class C addresses to his dial-in users

Rusty Tucker: How does he make the connection to his ISP?

Rusty Tucker: Does he still use FreePPP to do that?

Jose Arellano: Robert: Vicom hasn't released it yet so I couldn't tell you...they won't
release their version until late 1st Qtr 98

Robert Hall: ?

Jose Arellano: Rusty: Yes, you would make your connection to your ISP with FreePPP,
a router, ISDN Modem, etc.

Jose Arellano: GA Robert

Robert Hall: What type of gateway control, ie. restrictions on port usage does the
software have?

Robert Hall: for example say i only want certain customer to have access to the BBS
over the standard spider island TCP/IP node ports and say port 80 for web access.

Jonathan Paisley: ?

Michael Davidson2: ?

Rusty Tucker: ( Jon's next , then Bill, then Mike )

Jose Arellano: Robert: The PPP Server has builtin IP filtering so you can set this up.

Rusty Tucker: GA Jon

Jonathan Paisley: Will there be any way to interface the PPP Server with TeleFinder's
User Manager, or will we have to go out and buy some kind of radius server and
export/import our TF users?

Jose Arellano: The current version of the PPP Server cannot interface with TF's User
Manager however we are looking into this.

Jonathan Paisley: ok

Jose Arellano: Bill GA

Bill Gram-Reefer: Jonathan asked my question, yield to Mike

Jose Arellano: ok, Mike?

Michael Davidson2: Suppose I have a TF BBS with 2 dial-in lines and a non-
dedicated ISP connection. If both lines are using PPP and connected to my TCP
nodes and then one of the users decides to go on the internet with Netscape, will the
PPP server dialup my ISP then?

Rusty Tucker: ( my hourly limit came up , must be close to wrapping up ! )

Michael Davidson2: By the way, it would be extra nice if you did interface with TF's
User Manager

Jose Arellano: Mike, I'm not sure on that one. I assume that your PPP Client would
auto dial for you. i can get back to you on this one.

Jonathan Paisley: may I answer that question?

Michael Davidson2: I would appreciate it.

Jonathan Paisley: If you have a PPP single IP dialup connection, you'd need features
of the VIG in order to access the internet

Jonathan Paisley: In addition, the PPP dial out would have to go through the PPP
Server application, or through a LAN router, not through FreePPP or OT/PPP

Rusty Tucker: Our time is nearing an end today, Thanks Jose. You can see this is a
tough crowd ;)

Jonathan Paisley: basically, the TCP/IP won't be routed through your local PPP client
(like FreePPP)

Michael Davidson2: Where will these logs be kept?

Rusty Tucker: Remember, we'll be back tonight at 6

Jose Arellano: Thanks for having me today!

Rusty Tucker: Jose, will you be back at 6 too?

Bill Gram-Reefer: 6 pdt?

Jose Arellano: Yes.

Michael Davidson2: THANKS Jose!

Rusty Tucker: yep 6 ptd

Bob Nunn: Looking forward to it. Sorry I missed most of it.

Jose Arellano: You're welcome Michael!

Bill Gram-Reefer: too bad I have a centris 610!

Rusty Tucker: XXXXXXX <- (claps not kisses!)

Bill Gram-Reefer: xxxxxx

mikael fredriksson: Thanks Jose!

Michael Davidson2: Thanks Jonathan, then we need to make sure his PPP Server
handles this or it won't work.

Rusty Tucker: On to TeleFinder Server 5.6b1!

Jonathan Paisley: oh yeah! Almost forgot about that!

Bill Gram-Reefer: do tell

Jose Arellano: Goodbye everyone!

Bob Nunn: Bye then - send me the logs and I I'l edit them and send back.

Michael Davidson2: Might have to Ax the Logs a little Bob :)

Rusty Tucker: I'll have it posted right after lunch. B1 supports Windows for Plug-ins,
and supports Listening Threads for Plug-ins.

Rusty Tucker: Plug-in windows can be used for preferences, about screens or
graphical displays

Rusty Tucker: With listens a plug-in developer can implement a server within
TeleFinder

Jonathan Paisley: ftp...

Jonathan Paisley: java chat...

Rusty Tucker: IE , you could write a Radius, or FTP server as a plug-in

Robert Hall: ?

Rusty Tucker: GA Robert

Robert Hall: will the beta come with an example of the API?

Rusty Tucker: That part is already online here.

Rusty Tucker: http://wsapi.spiderisland.com

Robert Hall: thanx

Bill Gram-Reefer: ?

Rusty Tucker: Its my C++ Plugin framework. I updated it for WSAPI 1.2 a couple weeks
ago

Rusty Tucker: GA Bill

Bill Gram-Reefer: I think I understand the LISTENs part with the plug-ins, but go over
again the Windows part

Rusty Tucker: OK

Rusty Tucker: There is a new menu called "Plug-ins"

Bill Gram-Reefer: in TF server?

Rusty Tucker: yep, each plug appears as a menu item there

Rusty Tucker: If its an older plug-in, its name is grayed out.

Bill Gram-Reefer: so i can set prefs of each Plugin from a menu window?

Rusty Tucker: if it's a new plug-in, you can select it from the menu, and the about
screen should come up

Rusty Tucker: These features need to be supported by the Plugin

Rusty Tucker: The "demo" plug-in supports its "Echo" setting via its window, or via
pi_admin

Rusty Tucker: You can also get a C development kit from StarNine.

Rusty Tucker: Chuck Shotton has written a couple of samples too.

Rusty Tucker: One is a basic "telnet" echo program that uses listens and windows.

Robert Hall: ?

Rusty Tucker: 5.6 B2 will support the TOP command in POP3, this is used by a lot of
Handheld POP clients.

Rusty Tucker: GA Robert

Robert Hall: are there any "undocumented" features of the User Manager Web Plug in
you wrote? (Which by the way is SO great... I love it!)

Rusty Tucker: It uses all public info.

Rusty Tucker: I should release the source to it as a sample

Jonathan Paisley: yah!

Robert Hall: I just was curious to know if there was a way I could have it return only
certain information. Such as only list all the names of current users and their last
logon.

Rusty Tucker: Sure, can you tweak C++ code?

Robert Hall: nope.....got left behind in programming around BASIC.....

Jim S.: ?

Rusty Tucker: GA

Jim S.: Is there documentation. on just what a plugin is?

Rusty Tucker: Yes, http://wsapi.spiderisland.com

Rusty Tucker: also the Starnine website

Bill Gram-Reefer: got to go, you folks are huge, BYE

Jim S.: Is this the same kind of stuff(plugin) that Netscape uses?

Rusty Tucker: There are WebStar API server plug-ins. They replace CGI

Juan Jose Tarud: When will TF 5.6b be released...is it true that it is today?

Rusty Tucker: b1 will be online after lunch

Juan Jose Tarud: cool!

Rusty Tucker: I need to recompile it , stuff it and so on.

Juan Jose Tarud: does it feel good after all?

Daniel Parker: If TF 5.6b1 is released today, most of us will be out of time due to the
chat :-(

Juan Jose Tarud: that's true

Rusty Tucker: Use the web site, no time limits!

Rusty Tucker: Or just email me for more time

Daniel Parker: true

Daniel Parker: (Why do we have time limits??)

Juan Jose Tarud: why are you giving SysOps just 1 hour daily? we just use the
accounts for TF related stuff

Robert Hall: ?

Rusty Tucker: It's really just a tradition from the 'just 4 modem days

Rusty Tucker: Go ahead Robert

Robert Hall: do the sysops have mail boxes here....i just now noticed for the first time, i
don't have a mailbox here.

Rusty Tucker: Just email me if you want more time. I can reset your account to
unlimited logons, 1 hr each

Rusty Tucker: yes

Rusty Tucker: supposed to anyway :)

Robert Hall: hmmm....strange

Rusty Tucker: Well guys, I need to eat, then build b1

Rusty Tucker: Any last questions?

Juan Jose Tarud: I can not believe that this isn't slow

Daniel Parker: No, Bye

Jim S.: Thanks Rusty... cu

Robert Hall: thanks for the info!! and keep up the good work!

Daniel Parker: Thanks

Juan Jose Tarud: we'll be waiting for b1

Juan Jose Tarud: thanx Rusty

Jose Jordan: when is the next meeting???

Rusty Tucker: 6 pm tonight, then 11 am Friday

Rusty Tucker: it is 12:30 pm now

Jose Jordan: OK, thanks!!

Juan Jose Tarud: First time I do not see O'Leary around an SI chat

Jose Jordan: Adios, amigos!!!

John Agapitos: hello, I'll be back in 3 hours