Text of TeleFinder Chat from Friday, September 12, 1997 11 AM PDT.
In attendance:
From Spider Island: Rusty Tucker
Sysops: Ken Sutherland, Michael Davidson, Jonathan Paisley, Rick Palmer, Daniel O'Leary, Roel Wigboldus, Donald McHose, Bob Nunn
Rusty Tucker: Hi Ken!
Ken Sutherland: greetings
Ken Sutherland: what is chat logger
Rusty Tucker: I didn't send a reminder note yesterday, guess I should have! :)
Ken Sutherland: is it the bold bob
Rusty Tucker: It's a copy of TF User logged in with that name
Ken Sutherland: ok, sorry for speaking
Rusty Tucker: It keeps the log of this room.
Ken Sutherland: interesting
Ken Sutherland: i c we are busy
Rusty Tucker: That way IM's to me don't get mixed in the file, and I don't have to remember to keep a log either.
Ken Sutherland: smart
Ken Sutherland: any more stdlog's on the email plug in
Rusty Tucker: Just that one, I didn't keep the message that caused the error :(
Rusty Tucker: Jon thinks its from the Web* list, so I should get another soon
Ken Sutherland: roops
Ken Sutherland: any further on the client bug on auto runs
Rusty Tucker: FYI: Don McHose was here a bit ago looking for a Mail PI beta
Rusty Tucker: ? which auto run bug
Ken Sutherland: which
Ken Sutherland: Tut Tut
Rusty Tucker: :)
Ken Sutherland: more than 1024
Rusty Tucker: Hi Michael!
Rusty Tucker: more than 1024?
Michael Davidson: hi all!! :)
Ken Sutherland: when u do a auto mail run and download a file, and cancel transfer before completion it deletes it before you can download it again
Ken Sutherland: remember
Ken Sutherland: hi Michael
Rusty Tucker: Yes, I fixed that. I guess I didn't post it online:(
Ken Sutherland: back in 2 minutes
Michael Davidson: do you still need to have email to send before you can use auto mail? Or has that been fixed?
Rusty Tucker: Yes you still need something to send before it will start a run.
Jonathan Paisley: hi
Rusty Tucker: Hi Jon!
Michael Davidson: Would it be a big prob to remedy this?
Michael Davidson: Hi Jonathan
Rusty Tucker: I'd have to take a closer look at it.
Michael Davidson: I used to send mail to myself to get auto to run, but its a messy solution.
Rick Palmer: Came in late... what the heck is auto mail?
Rusty Tucker: It needs a record in that file to know who it needs to call.
Jonathan Paisley: I have a patched TF User to always auto run
Michael Davidson: I was even going to use apple script to always replace email ready to send to myself after it was sent
Rusty Tucker: TF User's Mail Outbox.
Michael Davidson: yes rusty, but you could handle that, no??? :)
Rusty Tucker: You can set it up to call a server at a certain time and exchange email.
Michael Davidson: couldn't it get the address to goto from the settings file by default
Jonathan Paisley: Rusty: it seems to work; I just took out the check for mail items in the outbox and it just uses the currently open settings file
Michael Davidson: Most of my users USE ME for email alone
Rusty Tucker: You should be able to script the mail run using Frontier or AS.
Michael Davidson: what do you Jonathan
Michael Davidson: Yes, it is doable by way of applescipt, but it would be NICER if you could tell it the destination and not have to actually send mail to yourself or a bogus account
Michael Davidson: I've thought about setting up a fake account called auto mail for users to send mail to, but still, they have to create the mail before they can check for mail
Michael Davidson: what do you MEAN Jonathan (correction)
Rusty Tucker: by way of apple script you don;t need the fake mail
Michael Davidson: O
Jonathan Paisley: but the apple script won't automatically download mail will it?
Michael Davidson: hmmm....
Rusty Tucker: just tell TF to call and connect to a specified server and exchange mail
Rusty Tucker: I though it would? Maybe not
Michael Davidson: Anybody wrote an AS yet for that??
Jonathan Paisley: I've written an apple script that logs on and sends mail, but not retrieves it
Michael Davidson: Ah rusty, you don't have anything else to do :), just slap a pop-up menu in the Mail outbox for us!!! :)
Michael Davidson: What are weekends for! ;)
Rusty Tucker: IF the download mail is checked and you tell it to send mail, it should download mail as well
Jonathan Paisley: it doesn't connect if there is no mail to send
Rusty Tucker: No, you can tell it to connect too.
Rusty Tucker: Tell it to open a settings file,
Rusty Tucker: then tell it to connect.
Rusty Tucker: then tell it to send mail
Jonathan Paisley: ahh yes, that might work
Jonathan Paisley: But a scheduled mail run in TF user (what's the point of a scheduler if you have to use apple script?) will not connect if there is no outgoing mail (have just tried it)
Rusty Tucker: that's true, it has no way of knowing where to connect to.
Jonathan Paisley: the currently open settings file
Jonathan Paisley: ?
Rusty Tucker: That's fine for a single host.
Jonathan Paisley: Note that TF/User *always* has one settings file open, no matter what
Rusty Tucker: maybe not
Jonathan Paisley: Yes, and generally that will be OK for most people who only call one system
Rusty Tucker: if you don't have a default settings
Jonathan Paisley: ok, single exception to that rule ;)
Rusty Tucker: The script is the way to go.
Jonathan Paisley: sorry, must dash folks! See You later
Rusty Tucker: Bye Jon!
Ken Sutherland: tata
Michael Davidson2: hello, I'm back
Rusty Tucker: hi again, hi Dan!
Ken Sutherland: anyone bought any cheap clones lately
Jonathan Paisley: before I go, might I suggest that the chat logs aren't done in bold
Daniel O'Leary: Hello All... Thanks for the SPML vars...
Rusty Tucker: :) cheap and getting cheaper
Michael Davidson2: no
Ken Sutherland: Dan, u skiving from work again
Michael Davidson2: Motorola just jumped ship
Daniel O'Leary: No Ken am home with a sick young one.
Daniel O'Leary: I heard that about Motorola also on MacinTouch.
Rick Palmer: got a couple quick questions
Rusty Tucker: u bet
Rick Palmer: I have a tech who swears he is having problems with TF User for windows.....anyone else see this or is it config problem?
Michael Davidson2: go Rick go
Rick Palmer: I told him config
Rick Palmer: the problem is that it doesn't connect to the host over tcpip connections
Rusty Tucker: what kind of problem?
Daniel O'Leary: What is up other than Motorola plying hard ball with Apple?
Daniel O'Leary: Wow... just had a backlog of chat msgs.
Rick Palmer: 2.5 seems to connect ok
Daniel O'Leary: I will have my ISP try it over windows. He has not reported a problem to date.,
Michael Davidson2: probably a profit thing Daniel
Daniel O'Leary: and has been using it.
Rusty Tucker: I don't think its a game Dan, I think they're out for good.
Rick Palmer: I think this is a case of MS bigotry...frankly
Rusty Tucker: At least as far as making clones.
Daniel O'Leary: Rusty, if they get out and sop PPC production, then we are in real trouble.
Rusty Tucker: + future PPC Chip improvements don't seem to be aimed at the desktop
Michael Davidson2: so if 2.5 is okay, what's different with it and the newer TF/user that would cause his config to change?
Rick Palmer: also...does anyone know how to dump the users name and password AND the mailbox...web space path to a tab delimited file
Rusty Tucker: IBM can make all the chips apple needs
Rusty Tucker: You can get that with Frontier Rick
Rick Palmer: like I said...I'm not hearing it from anyone else or in the windows user conferences so..
Michael Davidson2: I don't Rick
Daniel O'Leary: I heard a rumor that they were stopping PPC development... I do not think that IBM is the driving force behind faster/newer chips are they?
Michael Davidson2: IBM is baking up too Rusty
Rick Palmer: is it one of those frontier scripts on SI BBS?
Rusty Tucker: nothing is new in 3.0 that should cause a problem on tcp connections.
Michael Davidson2: IBM may quit sublicensing the Mac OS is what I heard, I don't know about the chips though
Rusty Tucker: I don't know if there is one that specifically gets the mail path
Rusty Tucker: MacOS true, will still make chips
Daniel O'Leary: Rusty, it would be most useful if the users mail paths could be imported and exported also.
Rusty Tucker: yep, I'll just add it to the export function
Michael Davidson2: Since I got bumped, I didn't hear the final solution to the mail outbox problem. Can someone tell me what was resolved (e.g., applescipt, what)
Ken Sutherland: bang bang bang went mu OS
Rusty Tucker: that should be better than mucking with a script
Daniel O'Leary: When resetting up a new system placing users in one or more sub-folders is difficult.
Rick Palmer: Michael are you using Internet direct?
Daniel O'Leary: Cool..
Rick Palmer: very cool
Rick Palmer: Oh, I had a minor thing from my techs...
Michael Davidson2: yes, and cjnetworks
Rusty Tucker: If I just put the path at the end, can you use that output for Rumpus?
Rick Palmer: they wished the web user manager would let them look at the password
Rick Palmer: yes
Rusty Tucker: I thought about that.
Daniel O'Leary: Rusty, have you played with Online assistant yet?
Rick Palmer: I'll do a transformation
Rusty Tucker: "View Source" would actually work :)
Daniel O'Leary: Hehe.
Rick Palmer: for the password?
Rusty Tucker: yes, its the "value" of that field
Michael Davidson2: I'm confused Rick, is there a reason you wanted to know about Internet direct?
Rusty Tucker: UM is recompiling now to export the mail path
Daniel O'Leary: Jammin!
Rick Palmer: you got knocked off....
Daniel O'Leary: Never has so much happened so quickly!
Michael Davidson2: yes from idc, now on cjnet
Michael Davidson2: I have a ? about smtp gate.
Rick Palmer: I just got a ID account because digilink got shut down and I can't keep a solid connection
Rusty Tucker: The Outbox solution is to use a script
Daniel O'Leary: whoops.. my Q key is going dead.
Ken Sutherland: must be the star trek influence
Daniel O'Leary: Yeah...
Michael Davidson2: I have an ip # although I only a dialup account. They told me that they can put all my BBS mail, regardless of who its for (Joe, Moe, etc.) in one account (I assume its pop) but cannot hold smtp mail waiting....
Rick Palmer: ahh...
Rusty Tucker: how's this:
Rusty Tucker: Guest 555-1212 13 1015 Thursday, June 5, 1997 Basic :Mail:Guest:
Michael Davidson2: for me to dialup. Anyway, the guy said that my smtp gate should be able to get the mail and sort it. Will MS's smtp gate do it
Michael Davidson2: I do have a domain registered with them too.
Daniel O'Leary: That works.
Rick Palmer: have you looked into the cable modem from Sunflower....I hear once they get it stable it works good
Michael Davidson2: So will smtp gate read mail from a pop account.
Michael Davidson2: Thinking strongly about it Rick, but I don't have cable TV and I would have to pay for that too.;
Michael Davidson2: Daniel, you say it works; were you talking to me?
Rusty Tucker: You need a POP3 client gate to do that, SMTP won't cut it Michael.
Michael Davidson2: It is a "universal pop account" (anyname@mydomain.com)
Daniel O'Leary: Michael... my comment was directed at rusty for tab or space delimited export file.
Michael Davidson2: And were do I get it Rusty...anything that would work with TF?
Rusty Tucker: it needs to be written
Daniel O'Leary: That got me thinking also about the Path Memory utility.
Rick Palmer: Michael, I'm going to get a cable modem I'd be willing to see if we can set your mail gate up for you
Michael Davidson2: Another weekend project huh Rusty?
Michael Davidson2: Groovy Rick. 842.6266
Michael Davidson2: In fact, I have two such universal pop accounts.
Daniel O'Leary: Could Path Memory be adjusted so that it behaves better if it runs out f memory?
Rusty Tucker: You can use SMTP for that, as long as your ISP will attempt delivery while you're connected.
Michael Davidson2: The guy told me that he has a number of business that do it this way. Are they using a pop gate?
Daniel O'Leary: I have found that it goes ballistic rather than giving an error msg...
Rusty Tucker: yes, they're using POP, not SMTP
Rusty Tucker: they're 2 different animals
Daniel O'Leary: Increasing its memory works though.
Bob Nunn: Could they be using UUCP?
Daniel O'Leary: Ken I am going to grab your new OAT now.
Daniel O'Leary: Be right back.
Michael Davidson2: He said (although I was VERY skeptical) that my smtp gate should be able to read the mail in that universal account
Rusty Tucker: Rick, is their much involved in getting SENDMAIL configured to do that?
Michael Davidson2: No no isp around here provides UUCP
Rick Palmer: Well, I'm not the send mail god...and send mail is always a goofy deal but seems probable
Ken Sutherland: Rusty , outgoing smtp, is it a fixed port?
Ken Sutherland: can u change it
Michael Davidson2: Is there a way to cobble together commingate POP3 and have it work with TF mail server???
Rusty Tucker: As long as you're ISP's mail server is listed as a back up to you, it's pretty automatic
Rusty Tucker: They're SENDMAIL will attempt delivery to your system on regular intervals
Rusty Tucker: when your system is up, the mail is exchanged.
Rusty Tucker: It's wasteful that way, but it works
Daniel O'Leary: Rusty, a useful utility would be one that creates a dynamic page that returns all the user names and a hyperlink to their web pages.
Michael Davidson2: He said smtp needs dedicated because it goes from net directly to the smtp ip, you say, if he is my backup system and will hold it, I could use smtp gate, Correct Rusty
Rusty Tucker: I think there is a way to tell SENDMAIL not even to try unless you're online.
Rick Palmer: It should try to send mail over a configurable period of time and a set number of times as well...so if you are off line it shouldn't bounce
Daniel O'Leary: It would need a conditional test to see if the file homepage.spml exists in the users mailpath.
Ken Sutherland: why not a auto generated page that check all users and those who have web space are added to page
Ken Sutherland: if you run it once a month it would catch all new web users
Daniel O'Leary: If one did not exist, or was deleted, the page should likewise be updated.
Rusty Tucker: Chris had talked about adding that to suzie at one time....
Rusty Tucker: u mite ask Chris if he'd release the Suzie code
Michael Davidson2: Rusty, how can I find out if "there is a way to tell SENDMAIL not even to try unless you're online."
Rusty Tucker: By talking to an ISP that knows the difference between SMTP and POP# :)
Michael Davidson2: :)....limited choices around here Rusty
Rusty Tucker: Or, get the O'Reilly SENDMAIL book, it might have the answer.
Michael Davidson2: Or Rick, how can I find out if SENDMAIL can be configured to keep on trying till I'm online and NOT BOUNCE
Ken Sutherland: rusty, can you change port id in smtp
Rusty Tucker: That part is default Michael
Michael Davidson2: hmmmm....
Daniel O'Leary: Ken, you might want to change the name of the Max TF File area.
Rusty Tucker: Yes, there is a CSTR in MS that has the SMTP config settings
Daniel O'Leary: Hehe, a semi private smtp connection eh?
Michael Davidson2: Thanks for the O'Reilly SENDMAIL suggest Rusty...where would I find that
Rick Palmer: The normal set up for send mail is 20 attempts over 3 to 5 days.
Ken Sutherland: how about running AIMS on the mac, change ms to send smtp to port 5002 and tell AIMS to collect it and send as usual on tcp connect
Rusty Tucker: Fro example. if our MS crashes on Friday, and I bring it up on Monday, I still get my mail.
Rusty Tucker: I don't think AIMS will GET mail via POP3.
Rick Palmer: I've not found IDIR to be very knowledgeable...they are basically running an NT set up....
Michael Davidson2: Then why does he insist on putting all my mail into a universal mail account (he says he has lots of businesses that do it that way).;
Daniel O'Leary: Rusty or Ken... Which of you is going to introduce Telefinder based Server push from user pages. (ducking)
Rusty Tucker: U can get it at Brains and Noble.
Michael Davidson2: This is cjnet Rick, but I agree about IDIR
Michael Davidson2: Thanks rusty
Ken Sutherland: Rusty, your closer, jump in the car and give him a kick
Rusty Tucker: If you're lucky, yours has a Starbucks too, buy the coffee and read the book on Sunday.
Daniel O'Leary: Heheheheheh
Michael Davidson2: There one of those weekend projects again Rusty? :)
Rusty Tucker: you got it! :)
Daniel O'Leary: Tune in to Telefinder channels...
Bob Nunn: Web Objects support?
Michael Davidson2: Hey, guys, you've been very helpful; armed me with enough knowledge to try to confront the guy again and see if I can get smtp gate working
Bob Nunn: Would anyone like a set of my sysop_admin spml pages that use the log output from suzie and TF?
Daniel O'Leary: Sure, Bob...
Ken Sutherland: would luv to see them
Daniel O'Leary: I wrote some a while back but have not used them in some time.
Michael Davidson2: Rick, give me the skinny on cable (cost, # of ip #s allowed, are they good at setting up special things for bbs's etc)
Ken Sutherland: we are adding all the features to suzie and more to the automan project, it will auto generate web pages for you
Bob Nunn: I will send them up. Not perfect but works okay. Formatting raw log data is not nice.
Ken Sutherland: tell me about it
Michael Davidson2: no don't
Daniel O'Leary: Rusty, can SPML be used to extract fields?
Rusty Tucker: I can read Form Fields
Ken Sutherland: is it save to assume most mac users now have ariel font?
Ken Sutherland: safe that is
Rusty Tucker: that'll be next year Ken
Rusty Tucker: when we're all running Win98
Daniel O'Leary: NOT!
Daniel O'Leary: I will be on IRIX.
Daniel O'Leary: Be right back.
Ken Sutherland: Dan got a funny thing to tell you
Daniel O'Leary: Installing the new OAT!!!
Ken Sutherland: hard hat time
Bob Nunn: Make sure your links are set right Daniel.
Ken Sutherland: fyi if we don't have any further bug reports Online Assistant for Telefinder will be released on Monday or Tuesday
Daniel O'Leary: Have a phone call... will be back in a few...
Michael Davidson2: How little is the shareware fee Ken
Ken Sutherland: £99+vat
Michael Davidson2: duh....and how much is that? :)
Rusty Tucker: x~1.6
Ken Sutherland: gets you OAT, automan and cyberchat
Bob Nunn: What are you going to do on the mail package?
Ken Sutherland: mail?, oh the plug in
Michael Davidson2: Is that $160
Ken Sutherland: yup
Daniel O'Leary: Ok, that was the insurance company....yuk.
Daniel O'Leary: I am looking for a new policy vendor.
Bob Nunn: You take VISA Ken?
Ken Sutherland: we are not sure with regards to email plug in, we have several projects on the go and
Ken Sutherland: are not sure how they will be bundled
Ken Sutherland: just about
Ken Sutherland: banks are a pain in the i/o
Michael Davidson2: If you only want OAT, and not automan or cyber chat; is that an option, or is it a packaged deal?
Bob Nunn: Understand, but could really use the advanced features. Could you handle a personal check on a US Bank?
Ken Sutherland: its a package, i think you will like the other apps
Ken Sutherland: give me 7 days please
Rusty Tucker: As of September 11, 1997:
Rate: British Pound per 1 United States Dollar : 0.626253
Rate: United States Dollar per 1 British Pound : 1.596800
Daniel O'Leary: Scotland time (grin)
Rusty Tucker: < http://www.dna.lth.se/cgi-bin/kurt/rates/rates?GBP+USD>
Ken Sutherland: uk rate is 1.60
Rusty Tucker: Hi Roel!
Ken Sutherland: hi Roel
Michael Davidson2: Is Scotland "free" now?
Daniel O'Leary: Hi Roel.
Roel Wigboldus: Sorry, I'm late
Ken Sutherland: YUP, YUP, YUP, YUP, YUP, YUP, YUP, YUP, YUP, YUP, YUP, YUP, YUP,
Ken Sutherland: fu*k the English
Ken Sutherland: its like telling a Canadian he is American
Michael Davidson2: :)...you'll get foreign freedom soon, (once you tasted self-rule)
Daniel O'Leary: Hehe... it really sounds funny as "Fred"
Roel Wigboldus: Had to fix dinner for Rod and Shelley
Bob Nunn: Its probably like telling a southerner he is a Yankee
Daniel O'Leary: Bob, do you know what a "Damned Yankee" is?
Michael Davidson2: one who has to live in the south???
Bob Nunn: Anyone from North of Tennessee?
Daniel O'Leary: .... One who stays...
Daniel O'Leary: grin.
Bob Nunn: Good one ;-)
Roel Wigboldus: Rod was up all night in Edinburgh, counting votes
Rusty Tucker: Is Rod there now?
Ken Sutherland: yup
Roel Wigboldus: Yes, here he comes
Michael Davidson2: so we can thank Rod for Scotland's freedom :)
Michael Davidson2: throw out the misguided votes
Rusty Tucker: Say what?
Rusty Tucker: I guess I should watch more TV
Daniel O'Leary: Or merely "re-direct" them to the appropriate target.
Michael Davidson2: roflf
Michael Davidson2: how high are the highlands today...party time
Roel Wigboldus: Great amount of celebrating last night below our hotel window - many happy people - some party goers - Rod
Ken Sutherland: Roel are you in Edinburgh
Ken Sutherland: you better be coming over to Glasgow
Ken Sutherland: better class of people
Ken Sutherland: bigger bars
Ken Sutherland: 8)
Daniel O'Leary: Hmm, who is poking at my page from roc-il1-13.ix.netcom.com?
Rusty Tucker: %)
Roel Wigboldus: No - Rod was in Edinburgh, Rod joined Roel in Amersfoort this p.m.
Ken Sutherland: bummer
Michael Davidson2: only bigger, classier beer mugs
Rusty Tucker: Its a pity we had to send Rod to EU to get him in a chat. :)
Ken Sutherland: ouch
Daniel O'Leary: haha..
Ken Sutherland: at least we can still chat
Roel Wigboldus: This is the only place Rod can get 128K ISDN
Daniel O'Leary: Hi Donald!
Donald McHose: hate to bust up all this great banter,but Ken does OAT 4 have the mail cgi?
Ken Sutherland: goto Hans , get 2 MB
Donald McHose: Oh hate to be rude Hi ya'll
Ken Sutherland: the cgi, yes, not the new plug in
Rusty Tucker: Any last q's before we wrap it?
Michael Davidson2: When's the next chat time?
Rusty Tucker: Tues. 11 AM, and 6 PM
Rusty Tucker: then, again on Fri. at 11
Michael Davidson2: okay
Bob Nunn: Chat log will be up tonight, http://www.spiderisland.com/~chat
Roel Wigboldus: Sorry, Rusty, Suzie seems not to work under MAC OS8
Donald McHose: Ken how can I reach you,I'm not kidding .
Michael Davidson2: and these logs are being kept where on SI??
Daniel O'Leary: Roel it works for me...
Ken Sutherland: ken.sutherland@highlander.net.uk
Rusty Tucker: You should send a note to Chris re: suzie.
Bob Nunn: My Suzie 1.7 works okay for me under 8.
Donald McHose: Thanks,by ya'll
Donald McHose: Don
Rusty Tucker: You can use Chris@spiderisland.com
Rusty Tucker: He may be willing to release the source to it, I don't know
Ken Sutherland: Chris's home page refers to tfchris@
Michael Davidson2: I gotta go. See ya Tuesday ya'll
Rusty Tucker: c ya
Ken Sutherland: night
Ken Sutherland: bye all
Bob Nunn: Bye
Daniel O'Leary: Bye
Roel Wigboldus: I will write to Chris - off now to Belgium - Roel & Rod
Roel Wigboldus: Bye
September 12,1997
-- ©Copyright 1997, Spider Island Software