TeleFinder Chat Log

Text of TeleFinder Chat from Tuesday, June 16, 1998 11 AM PDT.

In attendance:

From SpiderIsland: Rusty Tucker

Sysops: mikael fredriksson, Bob Nunn, Jim Smith, Jim Leary, Daniel O'Leary

mikael fredriksson joined the chat.
Rusty Tucker Welcome to the chat mikael!
mikael fredriksson : Hi!
Bob Nunn joined the chat.
Rusty Tucker Welcome to the chat Bob!
Jim Smith joined the chat.
Rusty Tucker Welcome to the chat Jim!
Bob Nunn : HEY
Rusty Tucker HI
Rusty Tucker Has anyone else seen the problem that Dan has reported with new users?
Bob Nunn : I went and checked mine to see if it was okay. It works fine, but I used my old original code. I didn't try the stock code with the 5.6 release.
mikael fredriksson : No
Rusty Tucker ? Oh, did he mean "web" registration?
Rusty Tucker I tried w/ TeleFinder user
Bob Nunn : I think there may be some be something wrong with the 5.6 web registration code. I thought that was what he meant.
Rusty Tucker ok.
Rusty Tucker I'm working on a couple new SPML pages for Framing Links.
Rusty Tucker Has anyone seen how MacWEEK is framing their "offsite" links?
Bob Nunn : Haven't paid attention but will look.
Rusty Tucker I thought was kinda nice, they put the offsite link in a frame, but provide a navigation bar back to MacWEEK,
Rusty Tucker and another link to "kill the frame"
Rusty Tucker They've' got a CGI that does it, but I reproduced the effect in SPML
Bob Nunn : Always like to see new code. May not use it but sometimes get inspired if I get the concept.
Rusty Tucker try this link...
Rusty Tucker http://www.spiderisland.com/outlink.spml$http://www.headgap.com
Rusty Tucker that's a LOT of Frames! :)
Bob Nunn : Boy I like that!
Rusty Tucker You could use the technique for InSite navigation as well.
Jim Leary joined the chat.
Rusty Tucker Welcome to the chat Jim!
Bob Nunn : Nice way to offer links without losing your viewer. Have lots of uses for that. My wife's co. uses a service for certain features and were always losing their customers after they went to the services.
Rusty Tucker here's the code..
Rusty Tucker <HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>TeleFinder Outlink Frame</TITLE>
</HEAD>

<FRAMESET ROWS="50,*" COLS="*" FRAMEBORDER="0" FRAMESPACING="0" BORDER=NO MARGINWIDTH="0" MARGINHEIGHT="0">

<FRAME NAME="smallwin" SRC="http://www.spiderisland.com/topframe.spml$"
SCROLLING="NO" NORESIZE>

<FRAME NAME="bigwin" SRC="" SCROLLING="AUTO" NORESIZE>

</FRAMESET>

</HTML>

Rusty Tucker the "nav bar" source ( topframe.spml ) is ...
Rusty Tucker

<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>back to Spider Island</TITLE>
</HEAD>

<BODY bgcolor="FFFFFF">



<A HREF="http://www.spiderisland.com" TARGET="_top"><IMG SRC="http://www.spiderisland.com/si_gifs/homeplz.gif" ALIGN="left" width="88" height="43" BORDER="0" HSPACE="0" VSPACE="0"></A>
<P ALIGN="right">
<A HREF="" TARGET="_top">Close this frame</A>
</P>



</BODY>
</HTML>

Jim Leary : RT....I solved the Cumulus search problems. Should have it running tonight just in time for the end of the Stanley Cup Finals. You have access if you'd like to look later today
Rusty Tucker I'm going to write up a little article about it and post it on the site sometime this week
Bob Nunn : Thanks for the code, will try it out a few places.
Rusty Tucker I think that there are a lot of potential applications for it.
Daniel O'Leary joined the chat.
Rusty Tucker Welcome to the chat Daniel!
Daniel O'Leary : Heyheyhey...
Rusty Tucker JL - that's good to hear.
Jim Leary : What a relief
Daniel O'Leary : What ???
Rusty Tucker Did you index all your pix?
Jim Leary : Thanks to both RT and DO for an education that allowed me to solve this myself
Daniel O'Leary : Repeat once for me JL...
Jim Leary : yes
Jim Leary : I SOLVED THE SEARCH!!!
Daniel O'Leary : Missed the intro statement. Good deal!
Jim Leary : The Canto tech said it worked for him so I knew it had to be in TF setup for my site
Jim Leary : and it was
Daniel O'Leary : I figured out a way to make it send you the files for local storage without displaying them on the Browser too.
Jim Leary : awesome
Rusty Tucker So what was the missing link JL?
Daniel O'Leary : Stumbled onto that while on Biap's site. Chat plugin does NOT work here.
Jim Leary : so we don't have to have that giant pic come up right
Daniel O'Leary : Yes, JL!
Jim Leary : /cumuluscgi/bbs/ in directories.config
Jim Leary : /bbs/ was the normal starting directory
Jim Leary : I had to tell TF about cumuluscgi
Daniel O'Leary : You should have seen a link in my setup before the crash.
Rusty Tucker Oh, Cumulus must be throwing off some bad links?
Jim Leary : The path to get to the search is www.rinkside.com/cumuluscgi/blahblah...
Daniel O'Leary : RT Cumulus does not know how TF server serves aliased folders.
Jim Leary : so I had to establish that path in config
Daniel O'Leary : It has a hard coded path.
Daniel O'Leary : prefix...
Jim Leary : right. I have to place aliases to all folders in the Cumulus .cgi folder inside of web space for it to work
Daniel O'Leary : Here is the trick to make it send as file.
Rusty Tucker yuck!
Jim Leary : OK
Daniel O'Leary : try naming a non-compressed file as .sea.
Daniel O'Leary : TF will send it and the browser will download and attempt to extract it.
Daniel O'Leary : no extraction occurs, but the file ends up on the user's side.
Jim Leary : wait. does your solution mean I have to open every file and save as .sea????
Rusty Tucker That will cause TeleFinder to binhex it ( with default settings ).
Daniel O'Leary : without displaying it in the browser.
Daniel O'Leary : NO Jim.
Jim Leary : ok explain please
Daniel O'Leary : just rename it and "sea" what happens.
Daniel O'Leary : grin.
Daniel O'Leary : think I can script that one to happen on the fly.
Jim Leary : should I leave the jpg extension on or replace it with .sea?
Jim Leary : scripting it would be a nicer solution over here
Daniel O'Leary : so you will not have to rename the files. Add .sea to the end to check this.
Daniel O'Leary : Pretty slick, eh?
Jim Leary : will that be ok on both the Mac and PC side?
Daniel O'Leary : Thanks for auto-binhexing RT.
Rusty Tucker You can use any extension you want, you don't need to use .sea.
Rusty Tucker Binhexing will suck for PC users.
Daniel O'Leary : Is there anothe method RT?
Rusty Tucker Just make up an extension, and add it to the "handers" list.
Jim Leary : like pic
Jim Leary : .pic
Jim Leary : ??
Rusty Tucker PC users don't normally have "de-hexing" software, so that's a bit of a problem.
Daniel O'Leary : RT the new BIAP chat plugin causes an IMMEDIATE sidebug break.
Rusty Tucker or .hex
Rusty Tucker "sidebug ?"
Daniel O'Leary : SIDebug break.
Jim Leary : and will it be ok for PC then
Daniel O'Leary : SI_Debug??
Rusty Tucker you are using 2.0.1?
Rusty Tucker what is the message?
Daniel O'Leary : Yes.
Daniel O'Leary : From your email.
Jim Leary : We can't be biased here. We have to make sure its just as easy for PC users
Daniel O'Leary : A few lines show up in the Web server log, then a memory is critical msg.
Rusty Tucker you need to increase TeleFinder memory allocation by lot then
Daniel O'Leary : then the crash with a SI_Debug break... Will get you a log when I restart the server.
Rusty Tucker start by adding about 2 MB to use BIAP chat
Daniel O'Leary : That is bad...
Daniel O'Leary : Not very efficient.
Daniel O'Leary : and no warning before it happens...
Rusty Tucker It starts 30 TCP connections by default.
Daniel O'Leary : The PI should not crash the server... It should refuse to load..
Rusty Tucker each one needs 64k +
Daniel O'Leary : Damn!
Daniel O'Leary : They need to take lessons from you on appropriate use of memory.
Rusty Tucker Debug breaks are not crashes, they're debugging info usually
Rusty Tucker That's the memory we give em. 32K for net IO, and they need 32K for the thread.
Daniel O'Leary : When I CMD-G it comes right back to MacsBug. and the sys is hung.
Rusty Tucker ic
Daniel O'Leary : Should give a msg. in the server window and DISPOSE of the PI hooks.
Rusty Tucker I need to add make sure I've got a lot of memory let before giving them a thread then/
Rusty Tucker please send a lot
Rusty Tucker - log
Daniel O'Leary : Yep!
Daniel O'Leary : OK, will do.
Daniel O'Leary : That PI is too damned expensive too.
Daniel O'Leary : I will continue working on mine once I get things square here. Wife is pricing finances to buy the G3 server.
Bob Nunn : I don't get enough chat traffic to justify it. I still intend to set it up. Have the file and the key downloaded.
Bob Nunn : I probably will leave up the old version long term though since it was free. Not very flexible though uses port 23 up.
Daniel O'Leary : When I get mine going, I will give it to you for free.
Rusty Tucker :)
Daniel O'Leary : I want to contribute something back to you guys.
Bob Nunn : Best deal I have heard today. Group licensing?
Daniel O'Leary : Now that Jim Leary and Rinkside gave me the tools to build the program, I can actually pull it off.
Rusty Tucker It needs path protected Rooms, not sure how that would work, but that's what it needs.
Rusty Tucker Since it operates outside of HTTP, it might be a little difficult to pull off.
Bob Nunn : Keep the goobers out of your private chat areas? Wouldn't just putting the links only on realm areas be okay for most?
Daniel O'Leary : There is an entry in UM dealing with Chat. I need to explore how to use it.
Daniel O'Leary : The permissions on that path might need some explaining RT.
Rusty Tucker OK - lemme know
Daniel O'Leary : it is treated in UM as a path....
Rusty Tucker BN - I don't think so.
Rusty Tucker anything ".biapchat" will load it up I think
Bob Nunn : oops..
Rusty Tucker Even then, it wouldn't matter.
Bob Nunn : I know my ISP found mine the other day.
Daniel O'Leary : RT the CPU I am getting is a 300 MHz G3 Tower with dual 4 GB drives...
Rusty Tucker The Java client has a non-HTTP conversation with the plugin
Daniel O'Leary : Any suggestions on other stuff to get?
Rusty Tucker DAT backup?
Daniel O'Leary : Was thinking about using a Jaz for it... I mistrust tape.
Rusty Tucker A flat 21" LCD screen?
Daniel O'Leary : Will have soft raid.
Rusty Tucker MkLinux :)
Bob Nunn : Get a 8.4 fireball external and use it for backup.
Daniel O'Leary : Already have a 21 inch I paid $50 for at the junkyard... A Sony!!
Daniel O'Leary : that was no typo.
Daniel O'Leary : $50.
Daniel O'Leary : TF for MkLinux???
Daniel O'Leary : I'll test!
Rusty Tucker nahh, can't do Be for G3.
Rusty Tucker That's a little strange actually. Why will Linux run on G3, but not Be?
Daniel O'Leary : Was not going to get the 100 base-T. because my other Unix boxes have 10 base t.
Rusty Tucker Might was well get the 10/100
Rusty Tucker can't be long before the 100 hubs are cheapo
Daniel O'Leary : Be supported multi processors. G3's were not designed to be SMP.
Daniel O'Leary : The OTHER chip we have not heard much about was supposed to address SMP.
Daniel O'Leary : Has high speed, but not as much throughput as G3, but built to multiprocess.
Rusty Tucker BN - your ISP found what?
Daniel O'Leary : His chat (hehehe)
Rusty Tucker Oh, the "Dis the ISP room"?
Bob Nunn : When I was having that trouble he noticed I was running chat software. Good thing he don't charge xtra. Guess if yo have the right software you can find people running stuff and get in.
Daniel O'Leary : LOL!
Daniel O'Leary : the port 23 traffic tipped him off I'll bet.
Daniel O'Leary : or he was doing a TCP dump.
Rusty Tucker yep, there's a UNIX port scanner
Bob Nunn : No I am nice to him. He keeps my prices down and looks the other way if I screw things up.
Rusty Tucker it just opens connections on all the ports to see what's there.
Rusty Tucker a lot of servers say what they are when they answer
Jim Leary : Appreciate the suggestion DO, but until we get the automatic updated (Vento) running, your solution would require both renaming every file and re-cataloguing every one. We'll have to live with the big photo at first. If you can create a script to do it on the fly, that would be fantastic
Daniel O'Leary : RT were you considering porting TF to BeOS?? (ref earlier comment) I had suggested that once before.
Bob Nunn : He has no clue to why my ISDN connection flaked on WWW. The reset fixed it though. Must have been a lightning strike or something.
Jim Leary : We can wait until you have time with that. My concern is to get this thing up and running before the Stanley Cup comes to a close. It would be a huge accomplishment to get it working for clients just in time
Daniel O'Leary : OK, JL, I will continue looking into that fix... I am sure it can be scripted in because AS is already being used by the CGI, AND I am already doing file manipulations in AS.
Daniel O'Leary : RT, "servers announcing what they are" is considered a security problem.
Daniel O'Leary : It lets hackers know what attacks to use, predicated on the server response.
Daniel O'Leary : But I know that it is common practice by the fielded SW
Rusty Tucker I suppose DO, one side has to speak first tho:)
Daniel O'Leary : Yep. Sendmail was formerly one of the worst.
Daniel O'Leary : I do not know if it still is.
Rusty Tucker I think it's been cleaned up pretty well.
Rusty Tucker No on BeOS
Daniel O'Leary : Bummer.
Rusty Tucker I had some thought of doing the web server for Be, before they came out with this dumb announcement that
Rusty Tucker Netscape would do there;s
Daniel O'Leary : What about my new user registration problem? Have to tried to register on here?
Rusty Tucker of course, that never happened, and now Be has no web server!
Daniel O'Leary : Want to approach them again?
Daniel O'Leary : Even though they dissed ya?
Rusty Tucker I didn't DO. Please send me a BBS log of one of the registrations.
Rusty Tucker We discussed that before you got here. BN thought you meant web registration?
Jim Leary left the chat.
Rusty Tucker c-ya Jim Leary
Daniel O'Leary : This was via TF/User.
Rusty Tucker ok
Daniel O'Leary : Basically the server responds as if a wrong password to an existing account was attempted.
Daniel O'Leary : the account does not exist (yet)
Rusty Tucker what is your IP?
Daniel O'Leary : kz.eaze.net.
Daniel O'Leary : You do not have an account on here yet, since the crash... so try it as you...
Rusty Tucker so far so good....
Daniel O'Leary : I put a JavaScript clock on my webpage...It is actually in the MS lockout code... (grin)
Daniel O'Leary : Could the problem be in my client?
Rusty Tucker I got on, as "a test user 1"
Daniel O'Leary : OK... Let me try something...
Daniel O'Leary : I am going to delete the user and try again...
Daniel O'Leary : By the way my new user script is working.
Rusty Tucker oh good
Daniel O'Leary : I now copy dox and stuff as links to a folder on the system.
Daniel O'Leary : Baseline page templates are copied as files.
Daniel O'Leary : so the user may edit them.
Daniel O'Leary : I could not get the script shipped with it to work.
Daniel O'Leary : Am unsure how to use relative references in the paths within the script.
Daniel O'Leary : I tried placing my templates folder within the same folder as the script, but it did not work with paths specified by :new user templates:
Daniel O'Leary : Worked when I replaced that with the full pathname.
Daniel O'Leary : Now try to re-reg....
Rusty Tucker sill ok here
Daniel O'Leary : Could the problem be in my copy of TF/User?
Rusty Tucker maybe?
Daniel O'Leary : Check out the results of my script while you are there...
Rusty Tucker ooops
Daniel O'Leary : The files and Dox folders are links.
Daniel O'Leary : the pub and webspace folders are real.
Daniel O'Leary : saves a LOT of space if you have lots of new users.
Rusty Tucker cool, can I delete all those doc too?
Daniel O'Leary : Included the targets of the links as an "OK for alias" path.
Daniel O'Leary : Try it.
Rusty Tucker OK :)
Daniel O'Leary : As I recall, TF deletes the link, rather than the target...
Rusty Tucker time for me to go
Rusty Tucker any last questions?
Daniel O'Leary : G3 or 9600?
Daniel O'Leary : Grin.
Daniel O'Leary : Does TF use SMP?
Rusty Tucker Mac OS SMP is too feeble for TeleFinder.
Daniel O'Leary : RT that distribution allowed me to nuke all those login alerts.
Rusty Tucker its setup so that PhotoShop can use it as a filter coprocessor
Daniel O'Leary : need a hook to be able to "refresh" a users doc files...
Daniel O'Leary : via an applevent tied to "check user mail paths."
Rusty Tucker Do, please send me a note on that. I'll see you all Friday? Bye!