In attendance:

From SpiderIsland: Rusty Tucker

Sysops: mikael fredriksson, Bob Nunn, Michael Davidson, Jim Leary

Rusty Tucker: Welcome to the chat Bob!

mikael fredriksson: Will you get it in the developer mailing?

Rusty Tucker: yes, it should come within a few weeks

Jim Leary: <<joined the chat>>

Rusty Tucker: The new plan from Apple actually makes sense ! :)

Rusty Tucker: Welcome to the chat Jim!

Rusty Tucker: Being able to leverage 10 yrs of MacOS investment with MacOS X makes all the difference in the world.

Rusty Tucker: Plus, having UNIX/NextStep along side it, just brings more possibilities to the platform.

Jim Leary: I was ordered to learn the ins and outs of WebStar RT, but I've decided to research servers in general. This

Jim Leary: will help make the best choice and stall for time in hopes that you can at least offer some basics on your new project like ETA and approx. pricing

Jim Leary: Time is running out. I have no choice and you've left me with empty guns

Jim Leary: no ammo in defense of TF and the future

Rusty Tucker: I though that maybe today, or Friday, we might tackle the subject of the Log Files, and how to read them.

Jim Leary: figures

Jim Leary: <<left the chat>>

Rusty Tucker: c-ya Jim Leary

Jim Leary: <<joined the chat>>

Rusty Tucker: Welcome to the chat Jim!

Jim Leary: what about the major project????

Jim Leary: or have you decided to go with separate plug-ins?

Rusty Tucker: Once I have some concrete details on that, I'll let you know.

Rusty Tucker: It will definitely be plug-ins for TeleFinder, or any Mac Web Server.

Jim Leary: actually the PI's would be the best solution for us and I'm sure many others. Leave the clients choices to take and use what they want

Jim Leary: not one bundle

Jim Leary: that's the problem with TF to begin with. So much that some use and others have no use for

Jim Leary: AMERICA.....CHOICE!!!

Jim Leary: I thought your last name was Tucker not Gates

Rusty Tucker: say what?

Bob Nunn: The plug in would likely have a broader market appeal. It would have to go onto a Mac server though correct?

Jim Leary: just a joke RT. Looking for choices, not one bundled group where you have to take it all or nothing

Michael Davidson: <<joined the chat>>

Rusty Tucker: Welcome to the chat Michael!

Rusty Tucker: Welcome to the chat Bob!

Bob Nunn: Still don't know why I keep dropping out. I guess it is traffic and the amount of bounces.

Rusty Tucker: qpq - is QuidProQuo, asip - AppleShare IP, fc- FirstClass.

Michael Davidson: Should TF quit trying to be a web server?

Rusty Tucker: No, I think its very important to continue to offer web serving with BBS and Email. It makes the total package unique.

Michael Davidson: Yes. How is web* at interoffice communications?

Rusty Tucker: The total number of TeleFinder servers shipped is over 6,000.

Jim Leary: In the article I'm trying to find, they reviewed 9 web servers covering all platforms. Sorry boys. TF wasn't one of the 9. That's my point. Trying to make it versatile can make it a wanted item

Rusty Tucker: That's primarily on the strength of it's BBS and integration.

Rusty Tucker: right, the article may have covered web star, if any Mac server at all.

Michael Davidson: So Rusty, where do you plan to focus your attentions with TF?

Michael Davidson: the BBS and integration?

Rusty Tucker: The good news, is that TeleFinder's numbers are up 50% since Dec! ( now _that_ is spin : )

Rusty Tucker: Only AppleShare IP had better growth.

Jim Leary: http://www.zdnet.com/icom/zdlabs/power.servers2/2.html

Jim Leary: is where it starts

Jim Leary: it covers WebStar and Apache...both capable of MacOS. There may be another or two also. That makes 3 or 4 putting TF at least 5 jerk

Jim Leary: read instead of assuming

Jim Leary: assume ass u me

Bob Nunn: Glad to see you have WebStar set up Jim and it is doing all the things you couldn't with TF.

Rusty Tucker: Apache is for Unix. There is a "sort of" Mac port called WebTen.

Jim Leary: Apache can set up as a server on Mac

Jim Leary: It was originally designed for Unix

Rusty Tucker: it runs under the MachTen Unix shell.

Jim Leary: and WebTen is there too. There might be another if you look

Michael Davidson: So, Rusty, what does these server stats tell you to do

Jim Leary: I'll check in RT to see about future progress. Its getting too crowded in here with know-it-alls

Jim Leary: <<left the chat>>

Rusty Tucker: c-ya Jim Leary

Rusty Tucker: MD - there's really nothing new in the numbers, they've been that way for a very long time.

Rusty Tucker: TeleFinder will continue on its present course.

Michael Davidson: so what does THAT then tell you to do

Michael Davidson: ok

Rusty Tucker: For the record, I think Jim may have misunderstood my point about TeleFinder being 3rd or 4th in the list.

Michael Davidson: who knows it all?

Rusty Tucker: 2nd, 3rd 4th or last, is not relevant. On the Mac, there is Web*, and everything else.

Rusty Tucker: None of they other servers have anything to write home about.

Bob Nunn: Probably me. I get irritated with people who throw up other web servers having tried a few of them myself. While I don't know everything I know they have their limitations as well.

Michael Davidson: Right. But that makes me wonder what TF could do to differentiate itself from WebStar

Bob Nunn: It already does with its bbs interface, mail, SPML etc.

Michael Davidson: To me, the integration with the BBS is where you can make a difference (where BBS is the office communication method)

Michael Davidson: right, so how do businesses with WebStar integrate their interoffice communications

Michael Davidson: or do they :)

Bob Nunn: They simply do it all of the intranet using browsers. We have for the large part moved that way over the client.

Rusty Tucker: There are Plug-ins and CGI's you can buy that will add conferencing for example. ( Web-Crossing )

Rusty Tucker: This will work with TeleFinder as well as web *.

Bob Nunn: Have you seen anything on opening a terminal window on a browser screen?

Michael Davidson: So, they can integrate with WebStar as well as TF does?

Rusty Tucker: Yes, I've seen a Java Applet that will do that.

Rusty Tucker: ( terminal on screen )

Rusty Tucker: Welcome to the chat Bob!

Michael Davidson: he's back again!

Bob Nunn: don't know why it dumps me like that. Got returning to local message the last two times.

Rusty Tucker: I got the article -- it lists WebStar and WebTen for Mac.

Rusty Tucker: Not sure why they picked WebTen, probably since its an Apache derivative.

Bob Nunn: Been getting a bit of Mac press lately as well.

Rusty Tucker: Hasn't helped its market numbers tho. They've showed 45 in the list in Dec, and 46 now.

Rusty Tucker: Apparently Web Ten failed the ZDNET CGI test.

Rusty Tucker: Anyway

Bob Nunn: I haven't heard much about First Class lately. How are they doing?

Rusty Tucker: Is there any interest in getting into "log file" detail on Friday?

Michael Davidson: Send ZDNET TF

Rusty Tucker: sorry, not very exciting is it :)

Michael Davidson: I do have that log file message RT, a lot

Michael Davidson: :)

Bob Nunn: I would be interested. Not sure how much practical use it will be but sometimes I don't until I learn more.

Rusty Tucker: good, does it usually follow a "user read" message"

Michael Davidson: don't know yet RT, but for sure not always

Rusty Tucker: like this:

Rusty Tucker: 4/8/98 10:06:37 AM - user read: News

Please correct this user's access group, the following path is not valid:

Rusty Tucker: At first I though it was related to new user signups, now I think it may be related to auto-display of files.

Michael Davidson: Mine seems to come after "user has Macintosh client software internal Version Ref...

Michael Davidson: O, it comes from a user in a special group...and that group lost one of its paths

Rusty Tucker: "lost paths" like:

Rusty Tucker: Please correct this user's access group, the following path is not valid:

AMUG_WIN:

Rusty Tucker: Are OK.

Michael Davidson: that's what it is

Rusty Tucker: its when the next line is blank.. that's a problem.

Rusty Tucker: Do you have examples of that? ( no path listed after the error message? )

Michael Davidson: sorry didn't realize about the blank line (I read around the blank lines)

Michael Davidson: Not that I have seen yet...

Bob Nunn: Can I ask about the PDF problem RT or have you not read that message yet?

Rusty Tucker: yes

Rusty Tucker: I did and replied too

Bob Nunn: Thanks. I will check it later then.

Michael Davidson: <<left the chat>>

Rusty Tucker: c-ya Michael Davidson

Rusty Tucker: TeleFinder supports "byte-ranges" that's how Reader downloads a page at a time.

Rusty Tucker: Is that what you're asking about?

Bob Nunn: Yes. Why did my 1.4 meg file stop at 500k and give me blank pages then?

Rusty Tucker: I don't know about that. Send me a copy and I'll test it here.

Bob Nunn: Okay. Works local. Try it with both Wang's Online and Headgap. It loads the plug in find and start up. Thanks.

Rusty Tucker: local? meaning on the local net?

Bob Nunn: I can pull it from my desktop and drop it on Netscape.

Rusty Tucker: TeleFinder docs PDF?

Bob Nunn: I can also download the file and it works with reader then. Its like it shuts down at 500k. Those work fine

Bob Nunn: I have them up by the way and do get traffic on them.

Rusty Tucker: just email me the file then

Bob Nunn: Thanks. Will do that this afternoon. Send me the log.

Bob Nunn: See you Friday. <