TeleFinder Chat Log

Text of TeleFinder Chat from Friday, February 20, 1998 11 AM PST.

In attendance:

From Spider Island: Rusty Tucker,

Sysops: Jim Smith, Bill Gram-Reefer, Michael Davidson, Ken Sutherland, Donald McHose, diana, Daniel O'Leary

Rusty Tucker: <<joined the chat>>

Jim Smith: <<joined the chat>>

Bill Gram-Reefer: <<joined the chat>>

Bill Gram-Reefer: nice picture of Monica, huh, RT?

Rusty Tucker: ? missed it

Bill Gram-Reefer: look at my e-mail to you "got some?"

Rusty Tucker: :)

Rusty Tucker: Got the new User, MS, TFS and UM online!

Bill Gram-Reefer: too bad I can't drag a JPEG into the chat box to share

Michael Davidson: <<joined the chat>>

Rusty Tucker: that's good one

Bill Gram-Reefer: yeah, is this the MS that will refresh after reconnect?

Rusty Tucker: yep

Bill Gram-Reefer: So should i give a brief report on FreePPP?

Michael Davidson: Hi guys

Rusty Tucker: Sure!

Rusty Tucker: Hola MD

Michael Davidson: Hey, Jim, I haven't received my registration code for Popcicle yet!

Bill Gram-Reefer: OK, I downloaded and installed FreePPP2.6.2 FC1

Bill Gram-Reefer: It seems to work OK, you can toggle messages on and off.

Bill Gram-Reefer: It takes about 45 seconds for it to notice disconnect and redial and log on

Bill Gram-Reefer: There was however a window on screen this morning complaining about the connection device not responding

Jim Smith: MD: Just received today, will email this after.

Bill Gram-Reefer: not the TF message..a different one.

Rusty Tucker: not too bad. OK - that dialog will dismiss itself, oh not a Tf dialog?

Rusty Tucker: must be from FreePPP then?

Bill Gram-Reefer: correct

Rusty Tucker: was your connect up or down?

Bill Gram-Reefer: DOWN but it was something going on between FreePPP and the modem for sure c

Bill Gram-Reefer: This was at 7 am and was still a little groggy so I quit and relaunched MS and everything seems to work

Rusty Tucker: That's Good then. Sounds like FreePPP does its best to keep things running.

Bill Gram-Reefer: Only fault beside that mystery is there doesn;t seem to be any log like PPP

Michael Davidson: I have a tidbit about keeping FreePPP up

Rusty Tucker: When the modem crashes, it will need a power reset like anything else.

Michael Davidson: I am looking for it, just saw it recently

Bill Gram-Reefer: the FC expires 2/28

Rusty Tucker: U guys are gonna like the new TF User/Server!

Ken Sutherland: <<joined the chat>>

Rusty Tucker: BG file transfers speeds ROCK, and has Transfer Recovery!

Rusty Tucker: Almost time to say bye bye to ZMODEM:), there's a new king in town.

Bill Gram-Reefer: faster than zmodem?

Rusty Tucker: Yes, by about 25% or more. + I think I can improve it even more.

Ken Sutherland: sounds great. will the pc client have it

Bill Gram-Reefer: MD tell all about FreePPP

Rusty Tucker: Yes KSm but not right away.

Ken Sutherland: where have we heard that before 8-)

Rusty Tucker: Mac FIRST baby!

Bill Gram-Reefer: right on

Ken Sutherland: that's always right

Ken Sutherland: just remember the >90% of end Users once in a while

Rusty Tucker: Plus it supports "Helper" apps on downloads now too.

Ken Sutherland: ?

Rusty Tucker: That part works with Internet Configs "Post Processor" setting, or a special TFUser config file.

Rusty Tucker: So if you DL a StuffIt file, it will run Stuffit expander to unstuff it.

Bill Gram-Reefer: is the config file included

Bill Gram-Reefer: don't use IC

Rusty Tucker: It also works with RealAudio .ra files, which I think is pretty cool.

Michael Davidson: <<joined the chat>>

Rusty Tucker: Yeah, the config file is included.

Michael Davidson: I'm back

Donald McHose: <<joined the chat>>

Rusty Tucker: It has a lot of common files in it, including html

Ken Sutherland: sounds like you have been busy

Rusty Tucker: So next week I'll move the chat room into the Public Files/TeleFinder area.

Michael Davidson: Hey guys, just thought I'd let you know about a deal I recently took advantage. Normally I'm not compelled to tell about "deals", but I think a fair number of sysops would be interested in a 9GB external for $400.

Donald McHose: scsi?

Rusty Tucker: Yeah, I'm a little burnt from the late nites this week :)

Michael Davidson: yes Donald

Jim Smith: MD: where?

Michael Davidson: Its a Micropolis full height though (Micropolis has went out of business, the seller must handle the warranty)

Michael Davidson: http://www.quadmation.com/

Donald McHose: MD:Thanx

Michael Davidson: I should have one myself in a couple of hours.

Rusty Tucker: KS- the new server also puts Email attachments into a Mail Server/Attachments folder. So it you attach a spool file to a message it won't get misdirected.

Michael Davidson: Hey, that's great about the MS attachments folder...I always wanted one of those to be there

Bill Gram-Reefer: i don't grok spool file

Donald McHose: RT: is there still a size limitation for TF client attachments?

Rusty Tucker: There never was ..

Donald McHose: Hmmm....

Michael Davidson: Size of the server's hard disk :)

Bill Gram-Reefer: i think he might mean "this doc too large to open with TFUser message

Ken Sutherland: brb

Rusty Tucker: If you attached an Email to an Email, Mail Server might send the attached email as an email itself, and not process it as an attachment.

Donald McHose: I may have a problem.That's just beautiful MK ! ;-)

Bill Gram-Reefer: i think i got that RT<g>

Michael Davidson: RT, is the telefinder attachment file the reason you put in Attachments folder in MS mail folder?

Michael Davidson: Who is MK?

Donald McHose: OOPs

Donald McHose: I'll get all the facts down in order, then bug ya'll later .

Rusty Tucker: Yes, that's in MS 5.6.2b1 MD

Michael Davidson: OK, I'm glad there is a MS mail Attachments folder (it may come in handy for other purposes)..

Rusty Tucker: Don, you posted a suggestion re User Manager?

Rusty Tucker: I'm looking at a couple ways of expanding on that.

Rusty Tucker: One is to run a script when a new User is created. The other is to send an apple event when a new User is created.

Rusty Tucker: Then the receiving prog could create files, folders and so on to do customized new User setup.

Donald McHose: It was on the UM-Pi.

Ken Sutherland: sorry about that, rusty, where were you saying about MS?

Donald McHose: I just wanted the option of a pull down menu that showed access groups.

Rusty Tucker: Oh, OK.

Rusty Tucker: I would like to add that too

Donald McHose: KS: Rusty was saying that Ken was REALLY busy on the Mail _Pi !!

Michael Davidson: Good idea about sending an AppleEvent when a new User is created though Rusty

Ken Sutherland: what are peoples thoughts on a force download for new Users, say a package of 200K or less with welcome info?

Michael Davidson: Rather have a strong suggestion to download, without force

Bill Gram-Reefer: nah

Ken Sutherland: my Users, especially those who logon with terminal are rather thick

Donald McHose: Most ISP'S do this in a welcome to the service e-mail message with a Oh, bye the way.

Bill Gram-Reefer: my bbs is just for clients so don't want tire kickers anyhow.

Ken Sutherland: now a auto email would be nice along with a default pub folder, hint hint

Rusty Tucker: That's' what I was getting at KS, an extension to UM to handle that.

Rusty Tucker: Either by an AppleScript or AppleEvent.

Donald McHose: Nice.

Rusty Tucker: Kinda like a CGI type of thing

Ken Sutherland: great, have i ever told you how smart and good looking you are (grin)

Michael Davidson: I love the applescript event idea. Leaves lots of possibilities open

Rusty Tucker: Every nite big boy ;)

Ken Sutherland: no offense but i feel we are really on a roll here for the last few weeks, its a nice feeling to have for once

Michael Davidson: RT, concerning FreePPP and keeping it up, one first problem is making sure it disconnects cleanly when the connection is lost. Here is my tidbit on that subject:

Michael Davidson: For FreePPP to detect a disconnect and automatically close,

you need to do 2 things:

1) In the Config PPP control panel, turn echo interval on.

1) In your modem initialization string, add E0 so the modem won't

echo the pings.

Rusty Tucker: :) That's how TF used to detect carrier loss many years ago..

Bill Gram-Reefer: that's E "zero" right?

Rusty Tucker: It's very slow, but it works pretty well. Using E1 it may never detect the loss and just keep talking to itself.

Michael Davidson: :), thought you would know, but then I thought you might find it useful for telling sysops that

Rusty Tucker: Yes E-Zero

Bill Gram-Reefer: so then AT&F1W2E0(return)

Rusty Tucker: looks good.

Michael Davidson: do you have a GV modem?

Bill Gram-Reefer: w2 for report DCE connect speed

Bill Gram-Reefer: unfortunately

Rusty Tucker: OT PPP doesn't seem to have that PPP Ping option, too bad.

Michael Davidson: ok, then looks good

Bill Gram-Reefer: oooh he's gonna send me a GV string

Michael Davidson: :)

Ken Sutherland: for what firmware revision, choose from 4 i think

Rusty Tucker: U should be able to use the same as TF Uses

Rusty Tucker: just combine the Wake and Init strs into one + add E0

Donald McHose: BGR: ya need a GV string for OT ?

Michael Davidson: Are you having less problems keeping OT PPP up than FreePPP?

Bill Gram-Reefer: so new TF User has the most up to date string for GV flex

Bill Gram-Reefer: MD it's not a matter of keeping it up it's that damned you've been disconnected message

Michael Davidson: yes, and your using ODPro 2.03?

Bill Gram-Reefer: ?

Ken Sutherland: RT, could the res for the message be deleted or something?

Michael Davidson: Okey Dokey Pro 2.0.3

Rusty Tucker: Losing the connect is a Modem/Tel line problem.

Bill Gram-Reefer: no on Okey Dokey it doesn;t like 8.0 8.1

Rusty Tucker: If it's an ALERT, you can modify the alert stages.

Rusty Tucker: Use ResEdit

Michael Davidson: I had to quit with FreePPP and use Mac PPP because of that dialog

Rusty Tucker: Turn off the "Show" for all levels.

Jim Smith: I am using Okey Dokey with 8.0

Rusty Tucker: If its a dialog, your stuck. Do not try and make it "Invisible."

Bill Gram-Reefer: hmmm, I'll take a look at it on 8.1 I may have had a previous rev that want' 8.0 happy

Bill Gram-Reefer: MD where'd you find ODPRo 2.03?

Michael Davidson: The new version only talks about adding AOL bug fix

Rusty Tucker: That ALERT diddling will probably work with OT PPP! Why didn't I think of that.

Michael Davidson: It' on SpiderIsland server, of course

Bill Gram-Reefer: uh-oh

Rusty Tucker: I just checked, and those "been disconnected" windows are alerts

Michael Davidson: in the utilities folder, maybe there is 2.0.4, let me make sure

Jim Smith: It there, just checked:-)

Bill Gram-Reefer: and here you thought apple should fix OT PPP!

Rusty Tucker: They should!

Michael Davidson: in OT/PPP right rusty, not FreePPP

Rusty Tucker: It's very rude for that message to stay on the screen forever!

Michael Davidson: I have no problems with OT/PPP dialogs

Michael Davidson: and ODP

Bill Gram-Reefer: yep there it is right next to something called online assistant...what's that?<g>

Rusty Tucker: because your using Okey Dokey, without it the "You've been disconnected" message will stay on the screen forever.

Bill Gram-Reefer: screen freeze reboot

Michael Davidson: and tell me now again, w/o ODP, how would I modify OT/PPP resources to avoid those messages

Rusty Tucker: In Alerts, there is something called an "Alert Stage".

Donald McHose: Gots to run again...U-R- doing great things RT. Have a good week-end everybody.

Michael Davidson: would it be easy

Ken Sutherland: is FreePPP better that OT/PPP? and why

Michael Davidson: big ? Ken, long answers

Rusty Tucker: For each stage the Alert can be "Visible" , Message Beep, and Select OK or Cancel as Default.

Rusty Tucker: Turn off the "Visible" in the "Alert Stage" and the program gets the default button as the response.

Donald McHose: <<left the chat>>

Donald McHose: <<joined the chat>>

Michael Davidson: what resource exactly ( the name in OT/PPP)

Rusty Tucker: There's a possibility that OT PPP will choke on it and die, but its worth a shot.

Michael Davidson: can we leave the beep message on? :)

Rusty Tucker: ALERT

Rusty Tucker: yes

Michael Davidson: groovy!

Rusty Tucker: try #9300 and 9301

Ken Sutherland: stop boasting

Rusty Tucker: New Subject!

Rusty Tucker: Would a "Script" menu in TF User be good?

Bill Gram-Reefer: If Apple wanted man to fly they would have given us wings. Instead we get ResEdit

Michael Davidson: For example, a script like:

Michael Davidson: or do you mean like a scripting macro maker

Rusty Tucker: More like the "Automated Tasks" Apple menu item.

Rusty Tucker: But inside of TF User

Michael Davidson: and give us a couple of examples of prebuilt in scripts you would add

Michael Davidson: get my mail and sign off

Rusty Tucker: Yep could do that. or "Show Download" folder to tell Finder to open the default receive folder.

Bill Gram-Reefer: well while you wizards do your hocus pocus I'll futz with FreePPP, thanks for tip MD

Rusty Tucker: cya BGR

Bill Gram-Reefer: bye

Michael Davidson: hey, there is a bug in FreePPP, read the faq

Bill Gram-Reefer: arrgh

Michael Davidson: it's a bug with loss connections and FreePPP, near the start of the faq

Rusty Tucker: Or a script to Stuff a folder and Upload it somewhere.

Michael Davidson: How bout scripting that would automate uploads to service bureaus

Ken Sutherland: catch u later, night

Michael Davidson: along with Forms for sending your docs

Michael Davidson: But that could be done outside TF/User

Rusty Tucker: Yes, that's already doable

Michael Davidson: So what aspects of User would you modify to get the scripts menu....leave it scriptable just as it is now, and make it easier to pull up the scripts in a menu?

Michael Davidson: That is, the scripts would still operate outside User, but could be called from inside User's menu?

Rusty Tucker: Yes a Menu in TF User that would call up a script. + add some things to TF User that would make it more scriptable.

Michael Davidson: Scripting always adds lots of possibilities...

Michael Davidson: I can't see how it could be bad for User to be scriptable...allows for very customized setups.

Rusty Tucker: Possibly send the scripts an Apple Event w/ some info about the app, connection and so on.

Michael Davidson: Precisely what aspects of User you would make more scriptable is in my mind. I would like max scriptability in mail

Rusty Tucker: You tell me :) I'm brainstorming about it now.

Michael Davidson: :), I'm thinking........

Rusty Tucker: Being able to automate text/email editing might be cool.

Michael Davidson: Yes, it would allow for very simple or very complex setups

Michael Davidson: Email should be paramount

Rusty Tucker: For TeleFinder, File Transfer is always on top :)

Michael Davidson: like email attachments :)

Michael Davidson: It would also be nice if OAT could tell you that you have some conference posts to you (using this applescript TF/User)

Michael Davidson: What besides email, would you want to automate in User?

Jim Smith: Automate, connect, and send files(s).

Michael Davidson: I can really see using it for service bureaus clients. Just hit the script, fill out the form, send your files

Michael Davidson: Send files can go thru email

Jim Smith: I think news reporters need that.

Michael Davidson: Also, you could build a script to send all the mail from User into another email program (e.g, Emailer)

Michael Davidson: And this would solve my other problem RT :)

Michael Davidson: Use User to get the mail in POP3 and automatically shove it into Emailer. My lan mail (tf) and my other internet mail can all go into one email app

Rusty Tucker: I'm back

Rusty Tucker: MD you should be able to script that ( POP3 ) in 5.6.2 using the Download helpers

Rusty Tucker: just define a helper for file type R822

Michael Davidson: Wow...I better get 5.6.2 then

Rusty Tucker: You could probably make a script that would take the ODOC event and do the EMailer thing with it.

Michael Davidson: ODOC event?

Rusty Tucker: It would have to be a script compiled as an Application, with a custom Signature.

Rusty Tucker: ODOC is the "Open Document" apple event.

Michael Davidson: Ok, but suppose I built the script and then would I be able to use it in your new User?

Michael Davidson: okay on ODOC

Rusty Tucker: If you can script a way to get the POP3(R822) files into Emailer, I can help you link that to TeleFinder.

Michael Davidson: Okay. I think I can do this already

Michael Davidson: I need to review what is currently scriptable in User

Rusty Tucker: The other thing I want to do with TF's outbox is to add a "periodic" check for new mail feature.

Michael Davidson: Yes, yes, yes

Rusty Tucker: They you could have it login every x minutes and download any waiting mail.

Michael Davidson: would you use an extension or leave User open?

Rusty Tucker: User would need to be open

Michael Davidson: If you had an extension, it could send an apple event to User or to a script

Rusty Tucker: You can use something like CRON to script it to do that now.

Rusty Tucker: right, you can do that today

Michael Davidson: true

Michael Davidson: but, if you are going to put in the periodic anyway, maybe make an extension instead of User open would be nice with scripting User

Rusty Tucker: The new scripting features I want to add will be "Show List of Users" , "select an Icon" "open an icon", bring a window to the front. download a selected icon and like that.

Rusty Tucker: The extension already exists, it's called CRON.

Michael Davidson: Yea, I would like that. The thing is, a scripting menu has more possibilities than we can think up

Michael Davidson: okay on the tf extension :)

Rusty Tucker: Show me your POP3 script when you get it done!

Michael Davidson: it would sure make more use of TF's scripting features it already has

Michael Davidson: ok

Rusty Tucker: I guess that wraps it for now. Download away!