TeleFinder Chat Log

Text of TeleFinder Chat from Tuesday, January 16, 1998 11 AM PST.

In attendance:

From Spider Island: Rusty Tucker,

Sysops: mikael fredriksson, Daniel O'Leary, Jim Smith, Ken Sutherland, Bob Nunn, Russ Reynaga

Daniel O'Leary: <<joined the chat>>

mikael fredriksson: <<joined the chat>>

Rusty Tucker: <<joined the chat>>

mikael fredriksson: hi

Rusty Tucker: hola -- back online!

Daniel O'Leary: What the hello is going on...

Daniel O'Leary: SI was unreachable until about 7 minutes ago.

Rusty Tucker: "defective telco equipment" -- according to netcom, uh hih

Daniel O'Leary: Yeah, right...

Daniel O'Leary: Anyway, I am here...

mikael fredriksson: it stopped 4 hops from SI

Daniel O'Leary: Ken is here too... need GOD privs to touch him on the shoulder.

Daniel O'Leary: Whoops now he's gone.

Daniel O'Leary: I just used my Unix box to keep pinging until I could get a return. Then connected.

Rusty Tucker: I was getting tons of hits, until the line went down, its exactly what you hope won't happen

Daniel O'Leary: Web page is STILL popular, eh

Daniel O'Leary: ?

Daniel O'Leary: 834 hit in the first 30 minutes was cool.

Rusty Tucker: It cooled down over nite, but it got something like 10k hits yesterday

mikael fredriksson: :)

Daniel O'Leary: And I swear I was not spoofing anything ....: )

Daniel O'Leary: Rusty, can I do a make over of the TeleFinder SSI.html, to provide links to various sections and tie it into working code segments?

mikael fredriksson: I think that the TF 5.6 release info was on all web news sites

Rusty Tucker: go for it!

Daniel O'Leary: I have done this on my system, but want to go further with it.

Rusty Tucker: Yeah, the sites picked up on the news real well!

Daniel O'Leary: I think that it will help a lot of sysops out on just how to use the new SPML stuff.

Daniel O'Leary: Now if I can hack an X-10 interface, I can control my house with SPML... grin.

Ken Sutherland: <<joined the chat>>

Ken Sutherland: hello all

Rusty Tucker: Sophisticated is sending a PowerKey pro, they want me to add support into TF for it

Daniel O'Leary: Hi Ken... Glad you could make it... Cool deal rusty.

Rusty Tucker: For sure I will add the "tickle" monitoring.

Jim Smith: <<joined the chat>>

Rusty Tucker: I think a Web Interface would be real cool too

Daniel O'Leary: With the new "#set" command I can control non-digital equipment.

Bob Nunn: <<joined the chat>>

Daniel O'Leary: Rusty, can we take the value of one variable and assign it to another?

Rusty Tucker: not yet, I'm looking into it though

Daniel O'Leary: It may be a way to export variable contents.

Daniel O'Leary: Ran into a need for that one. (grin)

Rusty Tucker: what you can do is "redefine" and existing var with new data

Daniel O'Leary: Am always trying to push the limits.

Rusty Tucker: but you can't take data from one var and put it in another.

Ken Sutherland: Rusty send a prize to Dan, his mailconfig is over 180k in size

Daniel O'Leary: The problem then is that you must be able to read one, then assign it to another through a kludgy #if construct... grin.

Daniel O'Leary: You are funny, ken, I have an award from Chris for my 43 MB mail packet.

Rusty Tucker: I know, I've seen that beast

Daniel O'Leary: hehe...

Daniel O'Leary: Sorry guys, I have a thing for messaging.

Daniel O'Leary: 43 MB was all FIDO too!!!

Rusty Tucker: KS - I want to do a promo on HDS mail....

Rusty Tucker: Can we get a demo version that doesn't require a key for use?

Rusty Tucker: Something I could bundle in the TF Demo???

Ken Sutherland: maybe, the FINAL release may be posted later this weekend

Daniel O'Leary: Ken, any chance of an apple-event interface for HDS Email, and OAT?

Ken Sutherland: ae is supported

Daniel O'Leary: I will update the OAT help files too...

Ken Sutherland: we just haven't told you the info

Rusty Tucker: I'd like that to go out as my next news bit.

Jim Smith: RT: Would it be possible to have MS scheduler to start a application and send a selected document to that application?

Daniel O'Leary: Send me details!!!!

Ken Sutherland: RT would you also include OAT?

Daniel O'Leary: I will develop sample application ASAP too.

Rusty Tucker: Just the email for now. Its a very hot subject and should get much better play!

Daniel O'Leary: Ken, was thinking about doing a sysop help thing for OAT too.

Daniel O'Leary: it would assist sysops in how to do various things.

Daniel O'Leary: Would need a more extensive chat buffer though.

Ken Sutherland: its funny, you say there is interest in HDS but with all the mail i have sent to the various places the reception has been crap

Ken Sutherland: HDS

Daniel O'Leary: Ken, you can be chat with...

Daniel O'Leary: Fix that.

Daniel O'Leary: cannot be..

Rusty Tucker: I know.. It doesn't make sense, and I'd like to take a shot at drumming up some interest

Daniel O'Leary: Would like to see better integration of OAT and TF, starting with use of Mail server schedules.

Rusty Tucker: Now that it is about ready, if I can get some sort of time limited demo, we can get a lot of folks to look at it when they get the TF demo

Daniel O'Leary: Also, am getting source for current RADIUS.

Bob Nunn: Perhaps people are having trouble understanding what it means. The demo would let them see.

Daniel O'Leary: Would like to see OAT bundled too.

Daniel O'Leary: It does a lot for users and sysops.

Ken Sutherland: we are planning to release a bundle soon

Ken Sutherland: also automan may appear in the next few weeks

Daniel O'Leary: Would like a TF/User MGR - RADIUS plugin.

Ken Sutherland: we have plans

Ken Sutherland: also for VIG

Daniel O'Leary: This would SOLVE VIG.

Daniel O'Leary: VIG now uses RADIUS.

Ken Sutherland: RT, a request, could there be a log that logs all chat whether via I'm or on the chat room

Rusty Tucker: you can via tf user. u mean on the server side?

Ken Sutherland: i have some suspect users i want to keep a eye on

Daniel O'Leary: I am referring to User Manager.

Daniel O'Leary: UM to Radius.

Rusty Tucker: yeah, I've always shied away from that because of privacy problems

Ken Sutherland: on the server

Rusty Tucker: So Ken, can we do something with HDS Mail?

Ken Sutherland: DO, we were asked by VIG to supply plugin for them for v 4.5

Daniel O'Leary: Plugin to link what to it?

Ken Sutherland: RT, will get back to you

Ken Sutherland: VIG to use UM as radius

Ken Sutherland: via automan

Daniel O'Leary: When I contacted them here, they said they were not interested...but I called them again to let them know that it could mean some extra sales if the integration were there.

Ken Sutherland: RT, i could set HDS to automail a demo request after installation

Rusty Tucker: IMO that's too much hassle, and if they don't have a live connect it won't work

Bob Nunn: I think being able to show them how it works up front would be very worthwhile. I still think that many don't understand what that means.

Rusty Tucker: Me2

Bob Nunn: Every MIS type has been blown away.

Daniel O'Leary: Rusty, I think that a complete demo version of the TF-HDS products should be shown.

Rusty Tucker: How about calling it HDS Web Mail?

Ken Sutherland: we could auto authorize for 1 time only, then they NEED to request a key within 14 days

Rusty Tucker: leaving the web out as it is now makes it seem like just another email product

Rusty Tucker: How about just a preset time limit, like the TF Server?

Daniel O'Leary: My ISP would like a port of the plugin to Linux...

Ken Sutherland: also remember, we authorize all keys, if the tf serial number looks suspect we bounce it, remember we have already had people try it !!!!

Rusty Tucker: Or a "per launch" time limit like Web Star?

Ken Sutherland: we protect tf if we can

Daniel O'Leary: While on the subject of plugin... Has there been any work on the FSE plugin?

Rusty Tucker: You need to be careful of being overly paranoid, especially if it makes it difficult for potential customers to try out.

Rusty Tucker: Too much hassle, and they drop it before they try it.

Ken Sutherland: yup but i cant tell you, if i did id have to make you work for Microsoft

Daniel O'Leary: ARGH!!!!

Rusty Tucker: I'm going to be switching TF to a 2 hr run time in the demo soon.

mikael fredriksson: KS why not a best before date AND a time limit online?

Daniel O'Leary: Rusty... I have given some thought to access control from the web.

Rusty Tucker: then the "demo" and "release" will be identical

Rusty Tucker: Chuck Shotton has a good method in W* for activating the demo,

Rusty Tucker: just answer a simple math problem and it will run for 2 hrs

Ken Sutherland: yup. i have all his keys

Ken Sutherland: and his SSL

Daniel O'Leary: Can we add some stuff to UM so that hit totals and BYTES transfered be incorporated when a user has logged in via the web?

Daniel O'Leary: That way we can stop web-based leaching.

Rusty Tucker: There are guys on the web that are "collectors", you don't lose a sale if your s/w is in their collection.

Ken Sutherland: it has always been our aim to protect our products from piracy, if we release a full demo, what's to stop someone cracking it as they did with TF

Rusty Tucker: Get market share, then worry about piracy

Ken Sutherland: of a shrinking market!

Daniel O'Leary: That's what M$ does now.

Daniel O'Leary: They convert pirates to customers.

Ken Sutherland: give me 2 tick, am going to call Jon

Daniel O'Leary: Tick tick.

Daniel O'Leary: Rusty... thoughts on new fields for UM?

Ken Sutherland: he's surfing, need to get him an extra line

Daniel O'Leary: Suzie would require mods also.

Rusty Tucker: Also, put a note on the web page that "Web Mail" is running in demo mode

Ken Sutherland: RT, the demo, what size is the file

Rusty Tucker: TF is about; 6 mb

Ken Sutherland: so floppy is out, CD

Rusty Tucker: Its only a web download

Rusty Tucker: I had to cut back on the docs to keep it small enough to download.

Rusty Tucker: much bigger and folks wont' grab it

Daniel O'Leary: I would not know about that RT... they grab 50 MB Flight-Sim demos.

Rusty Tucker: this ain't a game though :(

mikael fredriksson: or 120MB system upgrades from Apple like me ;)

Ken Sutherland: but you can get very frustrated all the same

Rusty Tucker: I gotta go, but will keep the log running

Daniel O'Leary: Ok. RT...

Rusty Tucker: I'll be back in about 10 or 15 m

Daniel O'Leary: Keep the system up!!!

Daniel O'Leary: I think there is value in the other HDS products.

Ken Sutherland: iv never had problems keeping it up, sorry to hear of your complaint, they can get cream so iv been told

Daniel O'Leary: At this time, they are geared specifically to enhance TF. Any problem linking the demos of those?

Daniel O'Leary: other than size of aggregate?

Ken Sutherland: if we go to the trouble of updating the reg for HDS we might as well do the same for OAT

Ken Sutherland: together they would only add 500k to the download

Daniel O'Leary: Then why not add them to the aggregate.

Ken Sutherland: anyone tried hfs+ yet, my mail drive had 1.6gb and after shrunk to 1gb, nice or what

mikael fredriksson: KS any plans for making a special price on your products if you have one registered?

Ken Sutherland: not yet

Daniel O'Leary: Ken, it works well on my conferences partition.

Ken Sutherland: to be honest the amount of registered sysops, is very small

Bob Nunn: I am still waiting to get HFS+. I hear it won't be available to us peons until first of Feb.

Daniel O'Leary: I had a problem with the damned finder NOT copying everything though.

mikael fredriksson: I'm waiting for the GM but use it on my work Mac saved 500 MB on a 2 GB

Ken Sutherland: Dan give him what we 30k file

Daniel O'Leary: ???

Daniel O'Leary: Ok.

Daniel O'Leary: Bob. Connect here.

Rusty Tucker: I'm back

Daniel O'Leary: I think the problem is in OS 8.0.... The finder did not copy all files from the partition, in either attempt.

Rusty Tucker: BTW - I'm going with w Netopia 630

Daniel O'Leary: No error msg was displayed until I tried copying a second time.

Rusty Tucker: So I have both a Livingston IRX and CISCO 2501 For Sale

Daniel O'Leary: then I got 2 not enough memory to copy msgs.

Rusty Tucker: + a prelude T1 DSU/CSU and a 56k DSU/CSU

Bob Nunn: Smaller batches Dan...

Daniel O'Leary: Rusty. I want the Livingston.

Daniel O'Leary: Tried that Bob.

Daniel O'Leary: It did not make a difference.

Ken Sutherland: i want it, Dan, bugger off

Ken Sutherland: hehe

Daniel O'Leary: Bite it Ken.. .I asked first.

Daniel O'Leary: Grin.

Ken Sutherland: but I'm bigger than you

Daniel O'Leary: I am closer than you.

Bob Nunn: Have some problems as well. We move lots of big files at work. Speed Doubler seems to help.

Rusty Tucker: 1st gut w/ a cc that will approve $900 wins :)

Ken Sutherland: want some HDS keycodes 8-)

Daniel O'Leary: I really do need something to support a LAN larger than 4 CPU's

Daniel O'Leary: The Livingston is a true router.

Rusty Tucker: either will handle that easily

Daniel O'Leary: Found out that the 3Com product is not.

Rusty Tucker: the CISCO is a top flight router as well, both have 2 serial + ENET BNC

Ken Sutherland: true

Rusty Tucker: U can look up the CISCO in the DataComm warehouse catalog

Daniel O'Leary: I could go with an Ascend 75...

Ken Sutherland: can you modem it from remote?

Daniel O'Leary: Yes.

Ken Sutherland: VERY GOOD BOX

Rusty Tucker: Livingston is now part of Lucent

Daniel O'Leary: I like Livinsgtons.

Daniel O'Leary: They are easy to set up.

Daniel O'Leary: and they work well.

Ken Sutherland: voice number please

Rusty Tucker: yes the Livinston. is more user friendly

Rusty Tucker: 1 714 508 9366

Daniel O'Leary: There are no limits in that box to the number of concurrent sessions.

Daniel O'Leary: Rusty, any thought on my Web access control request?

Daniel O'Leary: And what model IRX???

Rusty Tucker: I didn't see a model number. Just Internetwork router, 2 serial 1 ENET

Rusty Tucker: I don't see them in the catalog either

Rusty Tucker: Neither the CISCO or Livinston have a limit on IP addresses

Rusty Tucker: the Netopia does 630 (29), but apparently a firmware upgrade will change that

Rusty Tucker: That's what Netopia means by "user limits"

Rusty Tucker: so says their sales support

Daniel O'Leary: How are you supporting ISDN... through the serial port or separately?

Ken Sutherland: use a terminal modem

Daniel O'Leary: how much for the CISCO?

Rusty Tucker: same price

Russ Reynaga: <<joined the chat>>

Rusty Tucker: I'm using the Netopia since its integrated.

Ken Sutherland: same offer 8-)

Daniel O'Leary: how many serial port on the CISCO? 2?

Rusty Tucker: Hey stranger!

Russ Reynaga: howdy... thought I missed it!

Rusty Tucker: 2 ports 1 ENET

Rusty Tucker: the ports are 1 async, 1 sync

Daniel O'Leary: I may get you that CC now.

Russ Reynaga: looks like the topic is routers?

Daniel O'Leary: Am checking with my ISP... they are in the market.

Rusty Tucker: FS

Daniel O'Leary: Yes.

Rusty Tucker: I have a CISCO 2501 and Livingston IRX FS, $900 each

Russ Reynaga: Ohh, that is a good price!

Rusty Tucker: + a Beauty BeBox for just 800 :)

Ken Sutherland: if you wanted to sell a tf/HDS package

Russ Reynaga: but 'da chicken uses a Compatible Systems 2800i which has two T1-E1 ports and two 128K ports... the BeBox is also a great price, but I already have one of dem...

Rusty Tucker: I'm switching from the T1, which is way underutilized, to 128k ISDN

Ken Sutherland: wow, what did you say -)

Rusty Tucker: I'll be using a Netopia ISDN router ( #630 ), which it seems will have a firmware upgrade to remove the 29 user limitation.

Russ Reynaga: Well Rusty, here on the good side of the country in CT the 56K frame price is $300 including the local loop, and I can get graphics delivery space from aitcom.net in NC for $9.95 per month so I have an effective T1+

Rusty Tucker: Bob Wright already has dibs on "boomer" -- the Linux 66mhz 486

Rusty Tucker: That's a good deal Russ.

Daniel O'Leary: He can have it... I got real Unix here. (grinning and ducking)

Rusty Tucker: :)

Russ Reynaga: Yeah, I thought so too... hey the rest of you guys should jump all over that BeBox... it is nothing short of fabulous!

Daniel O'Leary: Will have to check back on the router.

Rusty Tucker: got it

Ken Sutherland: Rusty, is the demo tf server got a fixed tf serial number, talking to Jon as we type

Rusty Tucker: I'm still trying to figure out the PM 7100, seems that I may want to load a G3 upgrade card in it...

Daniel O'Leary: I would like that too Russ, but I only have so much in the way of $$$. I need to get Jim Smith his Lollipop dues too.

Bob Nunn: I just bought an IBM 9 gig for $400 (factory refurb) but with full 5 yr. while we were chatting.

Rusty Tucker: If I can add a fast SCSI controller, that might beat my 132 604e

Russ Reynaga: Hey, Henry Norr sez its great for the 7100

mikael fredriksson: BN where?

Ken Sutherland: Rusty?

Rusty Tucker: yo

Bob Nunn: Mac Mall, they had two left.

mikael fredriksson: ok

Ken Sutherland: serial number , is it fixed

Rusty Tucker: TF? The user enters it.

Ken Sutherland: nononon, the demo., does it have a tf serial number

Ken Sutherland: we need 1

Rusty Tucker: oh, yes, it has a hardwired serial number

Rusty Tucker: the demo serial number is TF00-24451

Ken Sutherland: are you waiting for it,....... OK you got it, we would be willing to include a time limited demo

Rusty Tucker: cool, I'll put together a release, and send it to you for a look see, and hopefully will spam it next week.

Rusty Tucker: well, spam it in a nice way :)

Rusty Tucker: BTW - is there a Mac spamming program?

Daniel O'Leary: It's not spam, it is "Useful Software /Info"

Ken Sutherland: hahaha

Russ Reynaga: Oh s**t, sorry guys, this always seems to happen when it gets interesting... damn. Gotta talk on the phone to a client. I can't understand why they want to talk to me, they should just send m lots-o-money, right... see ya next week guys, I'm outta here.

Daniel O'Leary: even better than "incredible money making opportunity"

Russ Reynaga: <<left the chat>>

Rusty Tucker: I'm gonna go grab my Netopia now

Ken Sutherland: would you be willing to include info in the demo with regards to OAT

Rusty Tucker: u bet,

Daniel O'Leary: Yipiee!!!

Rusty Tucker: put together some pages/text I can load in

Rusty Tucker: For the pages, keep it self-contained in a folder called /HDS/,

Ken Sutherland: ok

Daniel O'Leary: Ken. can you test the Highlander link to my system by posting to all TFDEV areas.

Rusty Tucker: It will go out on the CD too, make a CD version that contains some s/w if you want

Ken Sutherland: that way we could in the future include future product releases as well

Rusty Tucker: gotta go, will follow up by email Ken

Rusty Tucker: see ya next week

mikael fredriksson: hi

mikael fredriksson: do you need system 8.1?

guest: HI, that looks good

guest: Plz modify the settings in the client to be AT&F1&D0 too

guest: thanks,

guest:

guest: Rusty

Sysop: Thanks